What The Funk?

0:00 I just like the fact that she's she's got the Toledo mud hands had on just really playing right into your strong suit there Jeremy. You know when she said she was from Ohio or was born in Ohio I just

0:14 I went right to Toledo I don't know why I did and there we go the energy Elizabeth you

0:23 know there's a surprising number of people who have been till Toledo you would be surprised a lot of people have been to Toledo um so I didn't live there very long but still have family there and the

0:35 reason of the mud hands so that's why I'm wearing my mud hands today so well odd trivia you know that uh Michigan and Ohio fought over Toledo and when they were becoming states and I guess Ohio won

0:51 we're having yeah don't don't I don't know why but um

0:59 that's been That's been the theme of football, I think, for the last 15 years or so, too. It's been pretty steady beatings from Ohio going to Michigan. But anyways, we're live for Brown Palace.

1:13 Perhaps you should do an introduction, Jeremy. But I'm live from the Brown Palace, Tim. I told you I wanted to talk about that. Just look at how beautiful this is in the background. Let's take.

1:22 Oh, Elizabeth, Elizabeth had been. It's amazing. Elizabeth hadn't been, but Tim you're. Did you ever stay here when you had come to Denver?

1:31 No, I've been in the ship with the ship room many times. Ship tavern. Ship tavern, but I haven't stayed at the Brown Palace. I do like the open

1:42 bedroom behind you, so that's kind of fun. Yeah, I mean, it's a spectacular place. Definitely a Denver landmark. Anyways, Tim, why don't you introduce Elizabeth? She is going to absolutely

1:53 rock this, one of the most dynamic women that I've met in oil and gas period and I will let you introduce her.

2:02 Okay, so I guess Elizabeth, we met, got to leave 2013 maybe. Probably before that, yeah. Yeah, probably so, but anyway, we were doing, I don't want to pitch a product or anything,

2:18 but Oxy had just spun out CRC, so there was a software rationalization. We got ourselves into a little fight, a little bake-off, fortunately we won But it was amazing working with Elizabeth during

2:30 that phase because she, you know, she was so knowledgeable about the entire process and really gave us an opportunity to succeed where anybody could have easily just chosen the incumbent and move

2:45 forward and we managed to kind of succeed. But I was so impressed with the reputation Elizabeth has in the industry, her technical knowledge, and then, you know, and then you look at her profile,

2:60 she's She's doing a lot to help people in the industry right now. And, you know, so it's been a, it's been great to kind of watch. But anyway, Elizabeth, I guess probably best to let you do

3:09 your own little bio. I know you don't like talking about yourself, but we've got to plug it a little bit. And when we pull a little bit more out of you, let's, let's get to know who you are a

3:18 little bit. I mean, what do you want to know? You got to ask me some questions. We started out pre-show with where you're from, where'd you grow up and all that. So let's start with that And

3:26 then I guess your path to the oil and gas industry, because as Jeremy and I have discovered, there is no typical path to this industry. Everybody seems to have the kind of a weird margin. Yeah,

3:40 mine was

3:43 very weird. And so the closest I got to oil and gas as a kid was that I wanted to be a paleontologist when I was a kid. So I don't know if that counts as, you know, having a perception of the

3:54 industry or not But that's basically the closest I got to oil and gas. I went to Texas once. when I was six, when we were driving from Alaska to North Carolina. That was the only time I'd been to

4:05 Texas or Oklahoma, any of your typical oil patch places. So I really didn't have any kind of knowledge or perception of the industry. When I was in college, I was a materials engineer underground.

4:21 And I did fuel cell research. I worked for GE nuclear for two years. So I really liked energy And Exxon gave me a job offer. That's how I ended up in the industry. I wasn't targeting oil and gas.

4:37 I was targeting energy of some sort. But yeah, that's very, very random, very weird. And I guess I got you to Houston or to - Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Exxon hired me straight out of college. But

4:54 I'd already worked for GE for a couple of years, which is probably why they hired me.

4:59 brought me straight to Houston. So I'd been to Houston one time before moving to Houston, and that was during my interview. So interviewed, moved here, didn't know what they wanted me to do, but

5:10 I figured I could figure it out. So one more on the growing up. So you, I know you, you were born in Ohio, went to Alaska, off to North Carolina. What, as a child, what made you guys move

5:21 around? What was that? My dad was in the military for a, not a, he wasn't career military. He was in for, I think, five or six years. So that took us to Alaska. And then when he rotated into

5:36 the reserves, we left Alaska and moved east. So that was the move. Well, I'm an Air Force brat too, so I sympathize. Anytime I hear people moving around as a child, I'm instantly, yeah, well,

5:47 good chance they're oil field brat or an Air Force brat or some sort of military brat. Yeah, yeah. I mean, Alaska was wonderful. We lived in Fairbanks and I was really little. But it was a great

5:58 place to be a kid. I mean, it fantastic place to be a kid. I don't know how easy it would be to be an adult there. But as a kid, it was a wonderful man. Yeah. I mean, we had like boots like

6:12 coming into our yard. We had bears, a family of grizzly bears trying to come out of our school with us. So as a parent, that's probably pretty scary. As a kid, it's really, really cool. Oh,

6:24 wow. Yeah Yeah, you know, I always sort of wondered about that. It just seemed so foreign, especially like I grew up in New Hampshire, right? So just completely other side of the map and so big

6:36 and vast. And you just envision like snowing and ice. And I'm like, well, that's what it's like here. So if I just close my eyes, maybe I pretend that I'm in Alaska. But it's a similar type of

6:46 thing. It's a wonderland when you're a kid. And as you grow up, you're like, wow, it's pretty dense. It's gray a lot. The lack of sun can be an issue, right? and you find your way to. to

6:57 somewhere else. So there's a lot of different places we could go with this, Elizabeth. So you're viewed, I would say kind of as a thought leader, what is truly your passion from a business

7:09 perspective? It seems like you've got your hands in lots of different things. I was kind of made aware of you as a AD type person looking at constantly looking at deals and trying to make a creative

7:21 value for the organizations you work for. But I know you're into tech and you've been in project management, rationalization of technology. Like, what is it? Where is your heart and kind of take

7:31 us a little bit through the things that make you go from a career standpoint?

7:38 Yeah, so for me, it's all about really thinking through what motivates me and what are my values, right? And so I love learning. I'm like truly an obsessive learner. I learn about everything.

8:06 and I am motivated by helping, not necessarily people, but I do, as you guys know, help people quite a bit, but helping companies, organizations be better, and really making a difference within

8:11 those organizations or to an individual person if I'm helping an individual. That's what motivates me, right? So it's learning and helping in a lot of different respects And so if you kind of

8:22 connect my career and not have done a bunch of different things, both within the industry and outside of the industry, that's gonna be the common thread, right? Through all of that, that stitches

8:33 it all together.

8:35 That's really cool. I'm

8:38 gonna snake through your career just a little bit. 'Cause there's one thing that, at least it's close to where I met you anyway, but you went through the transition, your adoxy for what, two or

8:50 three years, And then you find yourself out. in California with Oxy and there's the transition, the spin out of the entire California operation into a brand new company. What's that like on the

9:03 inside going through that process? I mean, there's obviously a lot of things that have to happen. What's that like from your perspective? Yeah, so my tenure with Oxy actually started a little bit

9:15 earlier than being in-house. So Oxy was a client when I was a writer, Scott And we had been effectively seconded into Oxy of two, three months out of the year to help them with some of their

9:28 forecasting. And so I had been doing that for, I don't know, maybe two or three years prior to joining Oxy as it was. And when the spin off started happening, I was on the Houston side. I was in

9:42 BD in Houston. And I was given a choice or at least ability to weigh in on do I want to stay in Houston or do I want to go to and just because of the virtue of my position in BD. So I chose to go to

10:01 California, or I gave the opinion that I wanted to go and they did what they wanted. And the reason for that is like when do you get the opportunity to work on a spin-off of that size? It was a

10:16 very unique spin-off to do kind of an upstream carve-out of a public company into another public company that was going to be quite large. I knew what

10:28 the leverage was going to be different. Oxy obviously didn't have to deal with that. And so that leverage is just a different ball game. And so it was just interesting to me, right? So going back

10:41 to kind of learning and being super curious, I am like, Huh, that's different, okay.

10:49 Let's figure out if there's a role where I can be helpful to this company. And if so, I'll go do it. And so that's kind of how it all materialized. And from then, I mean, it was a sprint for

11:02 seven years. Right, there wasn't, you know, I think we, there might have been a

11:09 total of six months during that seven year period where we weren't just flat out of sprinting at something. And, you know, and that was, you know, Price is collapsing and leverage And I think we

11:23 did 10 credit amendments in seven years, which is a whole lot. Oh boy. Yeah, yeah, on top of multiple JVs and deals and all kinds of other stuff. So there's not really anything I haven't done at

11:35 this point. So from a learning perspective, it certainly was a crash course for sure. I think that the assets that CRC has in California, just going back to learning, it's so varied And you've

11:48 got water floods, steam floods, cyclic steam. whatever's going on underneath Long Beach. To Adam, don't forget to shout out to Adamite. Look, Adam, I'm not the scientist here, but shout out

12:02 to Adamite. Yeah, CRC doesn't have a huge to Adamite position. Oh, well, hell. Yeah, but there was some, there was some. Yeah, I mean, that was the thing that I think a lot of people don't

12:14 really appreciate about California. And this goes back to job seekers, right? So if I'm gonna kind of tail it back into what have I been doing for the last nine months, helping people get hired,

12:25 a lot of times when people are coming out of California or places like California, they've worked a lot of different things. And when there's a hiring manager, they tend to look for, oh, I want

12:36 somebody that has worked permit and only worked permit. And there's certainly good reasons for that. And there are times that you need that. But there are other times where just go get an 18 player

12:47 that's had exposure to your type of assets and 18 players will figure it out, right? they'll be resourceful and they'll figure it out. And often they have a really good frame of reference coming in

12:59 to be successful in those roles. So I tend to like to hire 18 players, I hired for culture, and I focus a little less on specific geographic areas of experience, right?

13:13 So I wanna kind of question what you've got going on right now. You and I had a conversation kind of when I was early in my, I would say entrepreneurship, starting from futures earlier this year.

13:25 And we had a conversation and you said, you know, you've got, you're helping different startups, right? You've got your hands in a lot of things that are non-oiling gas. And I don't even know

13:34 what you can talk about, right? What's public? And I'm sure you have your hands in even more. But kind of what are you, what's your day-to-day right now? Like you're not working at an oil and

13:41 gas company right now, right? So I'm curious what your day-to-day is.

13:46 Well, I'm not working for money in oil and gas

13:50 So I. My last day at CRC was in May. And so I'm still pretty fresh off the boat. Had a couple of really fantastic job opportunities out the gate that some colleagues connected me with. And it was

14:08 wonderful, but it was just too soon, right? So kind of coming out of, you know, taking a company through bankruptcy is no joke. And I really just wanted to, you know, just rest, rest and

14:22 reflect and do some volunteering and, you know, kind of take the summer and see what was gonna come out of it. So yeah, you're right, Jeremy. I've got a lot of different things going on. I

14:36 might be a little bit busier now than I was at CRC, but what I've been doing is a bunch of help for startups and job seekers in addition to - some oil and gas work on the side, but that's still

14:53 stealth mode.

14:55 With the startups, it's quite interesting. I joined a couple angel investing groups, and it's something I've always done, but I haven't been part of a group before, and what's interesting about

15:08 the groups, the deal flow, right? So they see a lot of different deals that come through the different types

15:16 of deals, and that's interesting for me. I'm not having to go out and be a fine friends and family type of deals. It's a way to source deals. I am leading a deal right now, so I'm leading,

15:29 serving as a deal lead for the group and one of the deals that they'll likely participate in. It's not an oil and gas or anything related, and so a lot of the things I do in my personal time aren't

15:42 related to oil and gas. The reason for for that is I find that there's so many learnings. from other industries. I spend an enormous amount of time within energy. So I learn within energy just by

15:56 virtue of what I do day-to-day, going to a conferences day-to-day. And so in my personal time, I like exploring other industries because you just learn so much, right? And so I've listened to

16:08 your podcast with Josh, Adler, right before this. And a lot of the technologies he's talking about that he's using are from other industries. They're from military, they're from defense, they're

16:20 from, you know, all kinds of different stuff. And if all you do is spend time in your box, then you're really going to keep yourself in that box, right? So that's why I spend time outside, and

16:33 it's a lot of fun.

16:35 Tim, have you watched it or listened to it yet, the Adler podcast? I'm actually oddly enough, I've got up on the other screen. I'm listening to the first half of it. I haven't had a chance.

16:43 It's just folks throughout the day.

16:49 Well, I haven't prepared, I've never been on a podcast before, so. No, that's big. I'm a research

16:56 director. I've

16:58 got to see what I'm gonna get into here.

17:01 You know, it's funny, now that we're on video, I'm now conscious, you know, when we were just audio, I was worried about what words do I say all the time and will people detect me saying, you

17:11 know, certain catch phrases, I think I've gotten rid of all those. But now on video, it's facial expressions that I'm starting to recognize, oh man, I gotta stop making my, my scowl face or

17:23 anything like that. So, you know, it's always been kind of interesting that way.

17:29 Anyway, so Elizabeth, I wanted to go back,

17:32 what, I don't know, September, so when I first started noticing, you're really going out of your way to introduce people to opportunities, both in the industry and out of the industry, really

17:44 kind of trying to take the guys severed in oil and gas and you know put them in jail. or wherever else, you know, what, I mean, obviously you want to help people, but what's that been like? Has

17:56 that been, I mean, you've had a number that you had placed, I think you posted that on LinkedIn a few months ago, but what's that been like and how successful has that been? Um, you know, I

18:10 mean, even helping one person get a job that feeds their family is a success as far as I was concerned, right? So, you know, I have a big network within oil and gas, but I also have a big

18:21 network outside of oil and gas. Um, and as the situation got worse and worse and worse and more and more people being out of work, uh, why not use your network for good, right? Basically, I've

18:35 got a huge network. Um, I used to do resume coaching a long, long time ago, you know, volunteering It's like, why not help some people, you know. you know, feel a little more motivated that

18:49 somebody actually cares and get them back on their feet or do what I can to get them back on their feet, you know, you can't solve every problem or help every person. But, you know, just as a

19:00 huge need, right? And it's great for the employers too, right? I mean, there are so many people that have come to me with random one-off jobs, like everything from, you know, housekeeping to

19:14 office managers to, you know, very senior executives. It's like, Hey, do you know anybody that's interested or that would be a good fit for this? And usually I have a batch of resumes for them,

19:26 you know, or I can get them in short order. And, you know, now that things are tightening up a little bit, you know, I'm less busy with that, right? Last year was really tough for a lot of

19:39 people. First of all, it was really tough for a lot of people. Lots of Lots of bankruptcy, is lots of layoffs. there are a lot of people in the market. What I will say is it's gonna be

19:50 interesting as things heat up a little bit and companies try to go back to refill those positions because a lot of the positions that they cut, those people have left the industry and they're not

20:00 coming back, right? So we see a lot of that with IT staff, data scientists, developers, those are

20:11 very translatable to other industries, those skill sets And

20:17 once people leave,

20:20 it's unlikely that they're gonna come back that quickly, right? So I think there's gonna be a pretty big gap in certain types of skills with the industry to be glad on us with you. So we'll see

20:31 what happens. Yeah, it's interesting 'cause I wonder, I've wondered a couple times, if we're gonna see the same gap in employment that we had in the eight from the cause by the eighties collapse

20:46 Now, if there's going to be another, well, what do they call it, the crew change? Well, there's going to be another gap of employment for the younger people right now who just not interested in

20:56 going into oil and gas. I wonder if we're approaching that same scenarios we did back in the, well, when we started talking about in the late '90s, early 2000s.

21:07 Yeah, well, the skillsets in a lot of cases have changed, right, and so I think the gap you're going to see, there will be a gap, but I think the bigger, and I could be completely wrong on this,

21:20 right, but as our businesses get more and more efficient and more and more digital, you know, you have things like cloud technologies that, there's not a lot of people in oil and gas to start with

21:32 that know it, and, you know, just at, you know, CRC, the, you know, guy that got laid off at CRC is now at Amazon, and he's not even in energy at Amazon, right, So, you know, he's a.

21:46 left the industry, and he was a cloud expert. So, you know, they get picked up quickly and you can't find them to start with. So, we'll see, but I think that's gonna be the big challenges, you

22:00 know, as you have increased pressure to be more efficient and more digital, to use data like source water, use data, you need the people that have the foundational ability to do that, and you

22:14 don't just learn those skills on the fly, right? So I'm not converting a mechanical engineer into a trolling engineer. You don't, it takes a lot of time to get minimally competent with that skill

22:28 set, right? So we'll see, we'll see. Let's just mention source water twice now, so we may have to

22:35 charge the shock. We need to follow up with Josh. So with CRC and Tim to kind of continue the theme that we had with Mike Umbro, and we went back and forth on this a little bit. The way that

22:47 companies drill for oil in California is a little bit different than the way they drill for oil in West Texas or gas in Western Pennsylvania and in Ohio and things of that sort, right? So I'm sort

22:59 of curious, does it take a different type of scientist or are there people like, I've only worked in this basin for the last 50 years, or do you think technology can automate some of that? Because

23:11 you really get people who specialize in a certain area, a certain field Do you think that the sort of future of the industry is people taking on more, understanding even a little bit more

23:21 potentially about energy transition or non upstream sciences?

23:30 Yeah, well, I mean, there's a lot of benefits to being a specialist in a specific field, but there are also a lot of downsides to that, right? So, you know, how do you get better, faster,

23:42 cheaper? It's usually not staying just within. again, within your box, right? So anytime somebody's trying to optimize drilling efficiency in EagleFORD, they don't just look with an EagleFORD to

23:58 do that. They'll look to what's happening in the Bakken, what's happening in Hanesville, or wherever they wanna look to for their analogs to get ideas and some best practices, right? So, you

24:14 know, I don't honestly think it's a great thing if somebody just stays within a specific field, their whole entire career, which is my personal opinion.

24:25 You know, will some things be able to be automated in our industry, yes, and I actually hope so. There are a lot of things that we do that, you know, particularly if there are safety, issues,

24:41 or if there are high risks associated, we absolutely should be trying to automate as much of that as we possibly can.

24:49 Simple, just within recent memory, scanning for wildfires, using drones to find wildfires, or SAT, or heat maps, or whatever they're doing, that helps

25:03 you keep people and property safer, because you're finding those things faster So we're using all kinds of new technology to scan pipelines, and look for leaks or potential issues, and detect those

25:20 faster. And that means you don't have to send a human out there. So it's safer for the human, not getting into a car wreck, or whatever is happening along the way. And you can also do it more

25:35 frequently. So you're going to catch stuff faster And the reality is, in a lot of cases, the. The tech is going to be more accurate at diagnosing those earlier issues than just sending a person

25:49 out there to walk the line, right? Tim, have something to say.

25:56 We had Mike Umbro on, like Jeremy mentioned a couple of weeks ago, and you know, he's pretty big advocate pointing out the, I don't say intellectual hypocrisy, but the trade offs that California

26:10 operators and California politicians are having to make between, hey, we don't want you to frack or we don't want you to, you know, drill anymore or really slow down production. But we do want to

26:21 import oil into the port of Long Beach from wherever they're getting the oil from. And really kind of this, yes, we, we need the oil, but we're not going to produce it ourselves, but we're going

26:32 to, we're going to send that off We're going to outsource that to Ecuador as opposed to Bakersfield. And I know obviously operating

26:44 in California is a bit more of a challenge from an operating perspective. I don't know if you've got, if you're ready to comment on those types of things yet, I know you're pretty soon after CRC,

26:55 but just wanted to kind of get your thoughts on that. Yeah, well, I mean, it's, I don't know, maybe it's because I didn't live it day to day in operations, but I don't think, you know, the

27:06 regulatory environment in California is necessarily any more challenging in its entirety than New Mexico or Colorado or, you know, some of the other places. I just think California is probably a

27:20 little ahead of the game than other states and, you know, where ultimately we're all gonna end up at some point. We were able to do everything we needed to do to run our fields safely, effectively

27:33 and efficiently Sometimes it took a little longer to do it, right?

27:40 documents to provide. But the assets in California are different, right? So you're not doing long reach, you know, three-mile horizontal wells which retracts on them. You're not going to do that.

27:53 And so, you know, you're drilling at least for CRC, very, you know, shallow, cheap wells. Most of our assets were, you know, Kern County, right, which is quite, quite favorable. And we

28:08 actually own minerals and a lot of cases surface for all of our assets. So

28:15 CRC's operating environment was a little bit different, right, than others. And so, you know, I don't, you know, I agree with you, Tim, in that you shouldn't kind of dump your garbage in

28:30 somebody else's yard, right, where you don't have to see it and you know we should as you know. humans trying to make the world a better place, oh, and the whole value chain of our decisions, in

28:42 my opinion, right? And so what that means is, if you really, truly believe that we need to be significantly more environmentally conscious, I want to produce well and gas under the most

28:58 environmentally conscious rules and regulations until they're, you know, a viable alternative that can handle the scale has come and displaced it. I don't want to off put it to China, you know,

29:14 where most of their energy, a large portion of their energy is still coming from coal, right?

29:20 You know, I don't want it to be produced in Venezuela, right? Where the environmental restrictions are nil, right? So,

29:31 yeah, I'm from a family of environmentalists, so I've always kind of seen both sides of this, you know, My grandmother wouldn't let us eat snow because it was acid rain, you know? I mean,

29:42 seriously, it's just rain. Rain, yeah, yeah. Shoe didn't want us to eat snow because of acid rain and, you know, my mom and science teacher. So I kind of grew up being aware. Um,

30:01 so it's a different. Did I ever talk about acid rain, Tim, on this podcast? Do we, did we dive into that? I don't remember seeing that topic ever. So, um, I was, I went to Brandeis

30:10 University, prestigious university where they can't take my degree 20 years later, right? That's not possible. I think it's yours to keep now. I think it's yours to keep. Whoo. So there was a

30:21 class that I took that was called a very difficult school, really, like, like top 10 for sciences, brilliant people that went there. And I took a class. Are you sure you're in? I don't know how

30:31 definitely wouldn't have gotten in now.

30:35 called the magnitude of things. And it was basically like a fourth through sixth grade level science course. And it was a lot of the athletes and just people that needed to check a certain box. And

30:47 there was one assignment for the whole semester. And it was a 10 to 12 page paper on anything to do with science. So I wrote my paper on acid rain. Why? Because I took a class on water where you

31:02 had to write a water thing I'm like, well, I just wrote a science fair paper. So here we go and submitted it. So nonetheless, acid rain, I remember digging into that. It actually makes you a

31:11 little bit scared, because I grew up in an area where there was a lot of snow. And of course, all kids like to eat snow. You're like, oh, this is actually bad. What would you guys have written

31:20 your 10 to 12 page paper on when you were 21, 22? I'm curious. I

31:25 have no idea. I don't really remember being 21 or 22 at this point. I was doing a lot of traveling, drink. I wrote mine on gas chromatography.

31:34 You guys are such nerds. Now you guys. Now you guys

31:41 are such nerds. No, there's no, I'm sure I wrote some pretty horrible papers during that period of time, but I don't remember any of them. I do have a project that I did when I was a senior in

31:54 high school or college about that period of time that was so much pain and suffering to do it, that I kept it. And so I still have it just out of virtue of, you know, this thing cost me like

32:06 hundreds of hours of my life, I'm keeping it, but

32:13 it will phase diagrams. There we go. Now we're getting nerdy, that's good nerdy. It's too nerdy, it's too nerdy for the podcast. Too nerdy for the podcast. We can go back to the present. And

32:26 really, my grandma was from Kentucky, or that for my mother. I think she was from Kentucky, St. Louis So there is a ton of, like,

32:33 pollution and contamination and she didn't want to drink in like out of a pond or out of, you know, eat the snow, right? So, so yeah, I mean, it's you, I don't think we should pass off our

32:51 consumption, you know, the what we should own our value chain, right? And as a environmentalist working in oil and gas, I believe that, right, that we should own our value chain. And we need

33:04 to do everything we can to be good stewards. Fantastic. So, so well, some of the things I'm trying to transition to the to the lighter side here. But one of the things that lives with when I was

33:15 working with you back in the bacon, I knew that you were kind of commuting Houston to Bakersfield and maybe to LA some. And so it just as one of the common threads from our early days on the podcast,

33:29 Jeremy was to talk about traveling and

33:33 places that we've been or the, you know, and I know, you know, I just wanted to kind of put that to you is, do you have any good travel stories, the Bakersfield Airport back in the early, early

33:43 days or anything like that? I don't have any Bakersfield travel stories. All of those seem pretty straightforward and smooth. So my biggest business travel fail. And I, I've had a business

33:56 meeting in Perth, Australia, but had made at least one other business stop on the way, right? So I was flying into Perth on a Sunday. I don't remember where we were coming from before then. I

34:11 was traveling with my colleague Harris, because Ollie, who's now at Lazard. And we get to Perth. And I'm, I'm really, really like an OCD traveler. I have my system down. I mean, I, I'm

34:26 usually like on it. Well, this trip, and it was because we were just flying direct into Perth on I did not do my normal of bringing like one change of business clothes in my carry on, which I

34:41 always do. But I was so, so tired that I checked my carry on and I forgot to pull out, you know, an outfit that I could throw into my backpack. And so bags come out, everybody else's bags come

34:54 out, mine doesn't show up, mine does not show up. And it's, I think it was Saturday night and we had Sunday and first and then our meeting was first thing Monday morning Well, in Western

35:04 Australia, nothing's open on Sunday. Nothing, nothing at all. So I wore Harris Gazzali's khaki pants.

35:14 Yeah. That's awesome. I wore Harris's khaki pants and they were like 1990s, like had pleats and things. I'm sure they were new, you know, not from the 90s, but they had pleats and they were

35:28 awful. but they fit me and I wore them and they were better than my leggings that I had or what, but to jam it, I don't know what I was wearing. Yeah, and my bag showed up later and I don't know.

35:41 No, that's not what I'm wearing. I've got a similar story.

35:46 I got a similar story of me flying to Boston when that's where Spotfire's headquarters was. My bag didn't show up, but I left from Houston Yep, I left from Houston in my, you know, shorts 'cause

36:01 it was warm here. And I figured, well, what the heck? I'll just get into a cab, get to Somerville Mass, change and I'll be ready to go. My, they didn't show up, of course. So I'm walking, I

36:14 got on the T, two stops to get to the

36:19 office and had to work all day in the freezing cold and a T-shirt and shorts And it was just, it was snowing, you know, typical Boston February or something like that. And it was, so I didn't

36:31 have anybody's clothes to change into. And I guess if anybody sees me, there's not many people that can exchange clothes with me either. So. Yeah, well, I very rarely check bags, like ever.

36:42 But I certainly have never forgotten to bring a business change of clothes if I need it in a carry-on bag ever since then. That was probably 10 years ago that happened. That's a lesson to all new

36:55 travelers or would have a change of clothes in your carry-on. Or whatever meeting your, whatever is the critical path item, right? Like I, you know, just don't, don't check it, just don't.

37:11 Of course, it always happens when you do something you don't normally do, right? Right, right, and I didn't know everything was closed on Sundays, right? I had no idea that everything was

37:20 closed on Sundays. So do your destination research as well to understand what you're going to be able to do. That's my biggest fail. The favorite oil place I traveled, it's probably going to

37:33 surprise you guys. We had an audit trip to Brunei, and I don't know

37:40 if you guys have been to Brunei. It's like, well, at least at the time, it was like what I envisioned 1950s US to be. So I showed up and I thought I was hungry, and there was one pizza place,

37:54 and so I called the pizza place And I thought they would take Malaysian dollars, stupid me, I just didn't know. And they didn't, they brought my pizza, and I tried to give them the money. No,

38:05 no, man, we don't take that. Okay, okay, let me go get some change from you from the hotel. They said, no, no, no, no, it's okay.

38:14 You can pay next time. You can pay next time. This is a pizza delivery service, not from the hotel. Next time, that's awesome letting like saying no you can pay next time like what is that that's

38:25 not good business strategy. If you were just walking down the road and you were potentially maybe going to cross the road, not at a crosswalk, not at a stop sign, you look like you might be

38:39 thinking about crossing the road. All the cars stopped and they looked at you and they just waited. I

38:46 don't care what year it was, that did not happen in 1950s Boston

38:55 It's like a lot in Houston and you need to count to 10 before you cross the road because somebody is going to be barreling through that light. With a big old truck, with a big old truck. So a

39:08 couple things here before we, before we sign off, this is good stuff. So this might be a thing, Tim, because next week, I think tomorrow I'm going to be at my usual recording spot, which is the

39:19 office. But next week, as you know, we talked about this, I'm flying to Boston and then Ghana, New Hampshire. And then the next week, we're spending a week in Boston. So I've got like two full

39:28 weeks on these coasts. So we're just going to mix up random locations. Maybe it's going to be a hotel spot in Boston. Maybe it's going to be outside of my parents' house in the yard. Who knows,

39:38 man? We'll see. We'll see. Keep them guessing. We need something from the Haba. Something from

39:48 the Haba. No. No, no, no, no, no, no, Harvard. You have to go to MIT. Go ahead and talk about it. No, he said, how about Harvard? You didn't say Harvard, he said, Haba. No. Haba,

39:56 not Harvard. Not the Harvard. The harbor. You want to go to Harvard? Oh, Haba. Oh, MIT, you

40:06 did this the only time you're going to get in there, Jeremy. Oh, that was the main term. There's actually some family history there. My dad, one of the smartest people ever, book smart,

40:21 totally aloof. He could be sitting across me right now not listening or knowing even what I'm doing. Oh, you're don't sure, but brilliant psychology professor graduated college when he'd like I

40:31 think he was 20 like he turned 21 like the next day was very young and Very very high in his class at Rutgers. I went to MIT and he was gonna be a chemist And I think he spent like enough time in a

40:40 lab for one semester. He's like now now I'm done. So his experience at MIT was not what I think he'd hoped for so he was always sort of negative on it But whatever I wouldn't have gotten it anyway

40:53 like you said Yeah

40:57 You don't know you didn't try I Didn't need to burn money. I don't need to burn money I need to Anyways, this was awesome Tim. You have anything else you want to close us out with

41:11 No, I was just gonna say I want to thank you a little for coming on I know this is kind of outside of your comfort zone and you know I think I think the world of you and I think that you know your

41:21 fine example to Women, women in STEM. Uh, the work you're doing with the, uh, 11 was, was the name of the company. 11 defense. Yeah. Um, and you know, helping people find jobs. I just, I

41:34 just thought you, you're a great example of what we should all be striving to do. And I really appreciate you coming on and that sitting with us. I know we could have done this for another hour if

41:43 we wanted to. Well, we might have to, depending on how the, uh, Jeremy's getting kicked out of the podcast recording Well, I mean, yours, we may have to take yours will have recorded. So Tim,

41:56 maybe I won't get a local version, but it shows up on yours. I'm worried about audio in that case, but we'll see. Either way, I think there's a lot of good content. I'm going to bet it's up

42:06 there. I'm going to bet it's up there.

42:10 All right. All right. Well, it's because it's not showing it up like at all. I don't know.

42:15 Can I ask you guys a closing question? Because we probably don't ever learn about you guys during these podcasts. Okay, so give me like off the top of your head. your favorite song of all time,

42:27 and why? Just like in the moment right now? For me, his favorite song changes. Well, yeah, in the moment right now. So I think now it's that song that goes like - My change is day to day, and

42:37 the ear warm, the ear warm I have right now is Sangria Wine by Jerry Jeff Walker. Okay, why? Well, I had Sangria last night, and the song hit me, and now I can't get out of my head. So I'm

42:51 gonna go with that one for now, But I like that style kind of folky country, you know, style. Yeah. Jeremy. Because like this, I'm the one who wants to be with you deep inside. I hope you're

43:11 feeling too, feeling too Lay it on the line, lay it on the line,

43:19 just to be the next to be with you. I mean, I guess I said the first song that came to mind. Is that

43:29 Mr. Favorite one right now? It's just the song that you like in the book. Is your favorite? Well, that song right now is my favorite song in the moment. My favorite song of all time is a more

43:38 complex question. Geez, I wasn't expecting that. I

43:46 just love the fact that he was singing it there in the Brown Palace.

43:52 Oh, man I mean, mine is Doc of the Bay, Otis Redding. Oh, that is perfect. I could have gone with that. I could have gone with that. That's a good song. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's about as

44:06 close to a perfect song as you can get. Yeah. It's fantastic. I can agree with that. It's got - Yeah, I love that song. Well, to me, that question has always moved a mood question.

44:19 Yeah. Well, it's relevant to the last - year of year and a half of everybody's lives, right? I mean,

44:26 COVID is, yeah. I liked a lot of GMX songs too. So it's rare that we interviewed, so we're never prepared. We had, we did some stuff with Peter Cohen. We had him on twice. And the first time,

44:40 he reversed every question on us. Ah, it's the first question and we were all, no. He's so close to us. Well, I didn't do that. No, but I like it Well, Tim, I'm sure we'll have an episode

44:51 like that as far as beyond the New England travel I have, I'm coming to NAEP, are you guys gonna be at NAEP, August 18th, 1920th?

45:04 Yes, we will. Pull again for NAEP. That is a wedding ville for me. So I will be, my oldest is getting married, so. I mean, congratulations, but you know, we'll have a fun time without you.

45:20 Yeah please do Forgive Morgan Wright Morgan

45:24 yet more congratulations Oregon she's losing the Lesser Righteous losing the lesser

45:30 Yeah the the theme of all her bachelorette parties they all have a sign that says so lose the only Guy I think lose to lose so great later Loser oh that's good I wife and I are through the basil used

45:44 to that phrase

45:47 guys are by