What The Funk?

0:00 Tim what did you just say? Can you repeat exactly what you just said? Well sometimes I like to plan for these but but you don't ever give me a chance. You just start punk you just punt me into the

0:10 conversation. So this is a fresh off vacation in Mexico went to finally got to Mexico the passports worked out. Cabo San Lucas finally right finally. First you need to retell that retell how why

0:29 it's I don't think if people didn't see the episode we were talking about what happened.

0:34 We had we had this we have a timeshare basically right and we go once a year typically like around Christmas or early January to Cabo San Lucas part of iArta it's like the one Funcation that we take

0:46 every year and Covid threw that off because we were supposed to go in December but it required multiple tests and you had to wear masks in a resort and like who's swimming in a pool wearing a mask so

0:56 we're like all right let's so let's pump that trip down to to June from last December to June of 2021. So, or May, so we show up at the airport, bags fully packed, family of five, and we start

1:09 checking in and we realize our kids' passports are expired. Yeah, it's smiling because I know what's coming.

1:16 All of our bags, right? We're like, oh, oh my God. So, this was the Saturday Memorial Day weekend, so there's nothing we could do about it. And then to find out the whole process, you have to

1:26 go through, it was effort, and it required, I think, three trips to him. We spoke at least on one of those. We're like, where are you? I'm like, yeah, I'm back in Aurora, again, at the

1:36 passport agency. So, we got them, like, there was a specific window. We got them, we left, we had the full week down there and got it all right, all the pool and the all-inclusive and food,

1:49 and I'm recharged and ready to go. Let's do it.

1:52 So, there you go. So, how long are you there for a week, right? Yeah, there for a week and then came back for the fourth fireworks, and here we are. planning it's always a constant I don't

2:03 plan at all I am not a planner I'm gonna guess that Chris Chris Roar maybe maybe a planter will find out what no no we'll find out but I actually call my wife and this is a little bit you know

2:16 whatever I'm just gonna say it planning steam planning steam because she just can't get enough Oh

2:25 I'll tell you well yeah I several my wife when she's planning a vacation we've got an itinerary and if we get off of it oh man we could be a big trouble it's not that so now Tim if you don't mind our

2:41 guest okay so we've got Chris Robart on the on with us hey Chris so Chris is with ambient and I guess we probably met 2016 maybe you you are fairly new at ambient and I was fairly new at OBS and we

2:59 were having conversations or we We competitors are we partners not sure we ever actually decided completely sounds like he doesn't sounds like we've had we've had a lot of conversations you know

3:10 competition getting to know each other and you know of course then you know just one of those random things in the oil business you just kind of wandering through on a solo trip to Pittsburgh and

3:21 suddenly someone yells at your name from somewhere off in the distance and it takes you a while to figure it out and there's Chris sitting there so anyway that yet we've We've We've crossed paths

3:31 numerous different times but you know Chris I your Your Chief what is it dad chief commercial officer have commercial officer there's all too many chiefs and and at ambient and Yeah doing great things

3:45 over there so anyway so Chris just give us a quick a bio of you how'd you get into the business you know how did you get to where you are Yeah

3:54 let's see I have an engineering degree undergrad, never been an engineer, I've always been on the business side. I'm certain I'm a probably a very bad engineer. And my father was an engineering

4:05 lobbyist, I grew up in the DC area. So I always expected I would land in energy. I did not expect oil and gas. I started out with some electricity work out of undergrad, very much for an analyst

4:17 type of role. And then anyways, I started doing a little consulting work in oil and gas and then sort of took on a life of his own and then I ended up building a consulting and research business

4:29 that was focused on optimal and gas, and particularly focused on oil and food services. For a three or maybe four year time period, I was like the frack market expert. I would go on road shows, I

4:41 would talk to equity analysts in New York and Boston and buy side, sell side funds. And that was my world and I've gotten out of completion side and now once we sold that company, we sold that to

4:51 IHS.

4:55 Stick around, upstream oil and gas, of course, do want to be in operations and ended up starting to focus in on the production space. Found ambience and we let a recapitalization and sort of took

5:08 over operating roles and sort of, you know, have over the last four, I guess it's four plus years now and you're really in the leadership team at EMU. Let me ask you one quick kind of name

5:21 question here because I had this problem first time we met. I figured, well, ambient in their Calgary base, Houston base, Calgary, Robart. Man, sure it looks like I could be a French name.

5:33 And so with the Canadian influence, let me just clarify, I make sure 'cause the confusion's out of my head. Is it Robart or Robart? It is definitely not the French version. Robart. Okay. It's

5:43 Robart. I've done the whole 23andMe thing and there is a little bit of French in there, But it's more likely that it's robo - Robart is derived from Rodbart, the German version, or maybe like

5:59 Danish, I don't know. Got it. And so anyways, but it's not the French version. That sounds a little too soft. There you go. Yeah, man. So I said this before the show, and I'm just gonna say

6:12 it now. I'm not one to mince words.

6:16 And I have seen a lot of technologies in my day, a lot of upstream software products And I think ambient is one of the best upstream oil and gas software products that I've seen. Now, that's,

6:31 someone of a layman's opinion, right? That's somebody who sees lots of demos and compares products. I hear things, right? Things mostly sound good, but for my P brain, Tim, I was really

6:42 impressed with what I saw from a kind of production optimization and just well thought out UI standpoint. Have you seen the product? on numerous occasions, and the UI is very well thought out, and

6:56 I was gonna take a shot at you there, Jeremy. Pretty much a pretty graph, and you've got Jeremy. He's, that's all you really need. Oh, that's a really nice looking chart, that's a - Now, I

7:05 guess the question I would ask is, have you seen the new platform, or have you seen the old platform? 'Cause we've been on a long migration journey to an entirely new platform, and the UIUX for

7:16 the new platform is definitely a good step up from old platform I think the last time I saw it was just pre-COVID.

7:25 You definitely saw old. So we can, another time we can show you new, and it's good, it's

7:32 sexy. Last time I saw it was about three months ago. So you probably saw a new one. But there actually have been a lot of UIUX enhancements in new platform over the last three months. There's a

7:46 lot of additional, We're still migrating. working on the migration process from old to news. We're still porting over some of the functionality and redesigning as some of it works as we move it

7:56 into new. So there's a lot that's been released on that side over the last few months. So I'm sure you'd be even more impressed now. Well, while we're on the topic of ambient before we get into

8:06 the details. Thoughts on Red Sox and all-star games and things like that. Give us the ambient story. What is, I mean, I know we kind of briefly touched it, but what is the ambient story? What

8:19 is the basics that you guys do? Yeah, so we are, let's say, very narrowly focused in production and then even more so, we're focused on the well pad in production optimization and artificial lift

8:32 optimization. Five years ago, we were trying to sort out which part of the value chain we wanted to be. We very quickly decided need to be an artificial lift because that's where you can impact the

8:43 well and really impact production. That's where you can deliver the most value. Let's go to you there, right? Let's go focus in on artificial lift optimization. So that, at least that aspect of

8:53 the hypothesis, which is you can go get production uplift and therefore get a lot of value, definitely is accurate, right? So we're focused, we're deep. We are a deep artificial lift

9:05 optimization, a set of applications. We started out in just raw lift. We've expanded to plunger lift. And then we have a module called SmartStream, which is applicable to all producing wells. I

9:18 get producing well, no matter what the lift type is. And then we're just sort of closing out the beta for gas lift optimization. So obviously, goal is to expand to some of the other remaining

9:30 artificial lift applications as well. But that's sort of where we're focused, is not just the conventional approach to artificial lift optimization. When you ask a typical guy in the field or an

9:42 engineer, They'll, you know, So that optimization is putting data on a screen and giving the engineer the information to go then analyze that data and then decide what to do with it, right? So we

9:54 go a few steps further, and so we apply, we're big believers in first and foremost, physics and better physics. But of course, AI, AI is great, but then you're pairing those two with SMEs.

10:05 Folks that actually understand these systems, understand the engineering of these systems, the physics of the systems, as well as folks that actually understand the hands-on realities of how you

10:14 manage these wells in the field. So you put all that together and we're trying to, honestly, automate a lot of the human-based workflows that live out there, from identifying various different

10:25 problems, to straight up controlling how these wells operate and controlling the checkpoints that live in these control systems to begin with. So we're just tweaking the dials, which is otherwise a

10:35 human activity and we're just taking over some of those workflows. You know, I was talking to a small operator is really keen on you guys. I'm not sure if they're a client or not. It's a

10:48 small-bocking operator, maybe a hundred wells or something like that. And what they said they really liked about your offering is that it puts the ability to change things, the speed and pressure

11:01 and strategic components

11:07 of production remotely, right? And be able to do that with your smartest production engineers and your executives in the office as opposed to sending somebody to a well and having them do something

11:18 maybe a little more on feel,

11:21 right, you're taking that component over and they like that, right? Because they have to stay as lean as possible and that can help really what they're, you know, routing, production

11:32 optimization and how their whole business operates.

11:36 Yeah, we know that we've got a number of two small and large Bakken operators as customers on guessing they were a customer of. I have a few in mind that it could be

11:47 that the problem with managing wells and this is something that took me a few years to really get my head around the psychology of operation seems that live out on the field who are mostly blue collar

12:01 guys either some some engineers in there here and there but it's heavily about your operations guys who are managing these wells there is so much data there are so many wells and literally they live

12:15 in a constant state of fear they are constantly putting out fires they are constantly dealing with the next shit show that's occurred out there and your major big producer has gone down the entire

12:27 team needs to go focus on that all other priorities get dropped so to be honest they don't they're not in the best position to think strategically and proactively about how do I do it better because

12:38 there are always putting out fires and By the time, you know, SCADA sort of hit the industry while starting in the 90s and is pretty much the norm by, you know, probably mid 2000s, certainly 2010.

12:50 And by the time you've scaled it up all these wells, you got a ton of data flowing through your SCADA screens. There's so much fucking data. There's no way that a human can make sense of all these

13:01 time series, these pieces of time series. And I'll give you an example of Plundrelift. Plundrelift, I, when I first started diving into the Plundrelift side of things building up the Plundrelift

13:10 application, I had these sort of naive, this naive idea that Plundrelift was a lot easier than Robliff. Turns out, Plundrelift, there's like seven different variables that you need to be, seven

13:21 different time series that you need to be simultaneously dynamically analyze and to understand how that well is trending and how that well is operating. And, you know, there's, you know,

13:32 psychologists that say that humans can't process any more than three variables at one time, you know, to make a real decision. And so now you're throwing seven out. And this is like a seven

13:41 dimensional optimization problem. Humans can't do that. I certainly can't do it. So even your best humans, but then more importantly, you put it on humans that are already fighting fires, living

13:51 in fear, over their head in terms of the shit on their plate, and you just set people up for failure. So we're just trying to take some of that workload off of the plate of humans. And there's

14:01 plenty of work to go around. I'll try to take you in one's jobs. There's more than enough work to go around. We're just trying to take some of that work off the plate Yeah, and I think when I see

14:10 that, when you have that overload, a lot of times, it just goes back to rule of thumb. You know, we need to optimize this plunger and the guy who optimizes

14:20 plungers in this area always does this one thing. He slows them down or he speeds them up. Are you changes the egg time or whatever he does? And it's just the rule of thumb. I see this, okay,

14:28 change it. It's kind of like, you know, the old slumber say, frack teams that I used to talk to. Every time there was an issue on the fracksite, matter what it was alright. increase the

14:40 velocity we're putting in, you know, increase the power. That was the whole thing. And, you know, we're a brute force industry. That's always a solution. We get up, that must, that'll make

14:50 it better, right? Yeah, so just speed up, do it one more time. So anyway, I did, you know, we talked a little bit before the show about this, but, you know, so I know in the early days

14:58 ambient was, was putting a box, I'm gonna call it an edge box, but I don't want to insult you, but some sort of, there's a box that you're putting out on a sucker rod pump or whatever you're

15:09 monitoring and pushing that, you know, that information to the cloud at whatever it kind of increment. So, and I know that's changed a little bit. So, you know, walk us through edge to what

15:20 you're doing now. Yeah, so, and that's, you're right, and whether you call it an edge boxer and a gay way or an edge device. It's all a piece of edge computing that sits out at the well. So

15:32 that was our exclusive deployment model when we first came to market, you know. Four or so years ago in the U S AM very early I heard feedback from customers in particular the customers that had a

15:46 reasonably mature status and now like we've already got that acquisition we're not spending money on new hardware so no thanks sounds like cool capabilities and functionality but no thanks to your you

15:58 know let's say I've got thousand thousand devices doesn't sound very fun to me that's just too much money especially in an industry or a part of the industry the production side which they don't have

16:08 the technology budgets it's not like D C where a million dollars is kind of a drop in the market rate so that was early feedback and we knew we always knew I always knew I was storefront for lines

16:20 near especially early on and in some of our sales work that we needed to quickly as quickly as we could come up with an altered deployment model which was to be able to adjust data coming from our

16:30 customers existing or legacy brownfield status systems and so we when we started That's, we started there. So we sort of went on this, we sort of internally just called a software only, ie. just

16:42 no edge device. But now we've expanded that to raw lift. All of the new applications that we build, the model that we exclusively focus on is ingesting data, integrating with those existing SCADA

16:56 and data acquisition systems. Now there's, I'll be honest, the SCADA systems, mostly they live on premise, the SCADA servers, were not built to make it easy to get that out And I know that you

17:06 guys have

17:09 had a lot of time cracking into those and getting data out. And it is, they were not built for that, right? So we're really pushing the limits of what they were built to do these things,

17:18 especially we want to stream that out of there to get the closest to real time we can. And it's hard, we had a lot of outscars along the way to figure out how to do that stably, how to do that

17:31 robustly, how to know when something's broken so we've got all this, you know, we've hardened. if the data transmission process substantially over the last two years so we've got lots different

17:40 pieces of monitoring and anomaly detection in there to help US enable that but like we got I'll be honest we got really hung up on getting data out in a stable consistent way and then obviously the

17:50 ability to then push commands back down to the to the edge via the easiest escape system is another hurdle that we had to go figure out how to do that effectively so God for all that you know a lot

18:01 about this cause along the way we came out the other end of the day they're robust very stable reply for where we can reliably get data out and actually get commands back down into the wells via that

18:14 that existing escape system

18:17 nice man I think there was there was well well explained and chose you're just the role that automation plays broadly is is expanding and and it's it's valued and whoever can make the most sense and

18:29 and really an action out of that data as is likely going to win so I am looking at your profile now I can't believe we're not connected one hundred and seventy two mutual contacts I really don't

18:44 hesitate I think I will but I don't want to get off your pager because now I'm doing some semi some swat some crack research over here but at Georgetown Prep right which is I end on the Maryland Side

18:57 I believe of DC it was originally part of the Georgetown University in the district in the Civil War and there was some conflict between the Northerners and the Southerners really young so they split

19:10 the the lower school from the other school they moved the lowest allowed to which at the time was like Super Super suburbs but now obviously is pretty close to DC Yeah so a little blip on My Radar

19:22 actually Tim I don't even know if you knew this I lived in the DC area for a summer actually for about three months for kids that I lived with went to Georgetown Prep without the Festa I guess would

19:35 be like, what's the cabin John Bethesda right there? Yep, I know it was Chevy Chase just because - It was right there. Chevy Chase borders up against Bethesda. Yeah, it was neat, right? And

19:47 then I see you went to UVA. I went to UVA for a game. It would have been

19:57 around the same time. They played North Carolina and Julius Peppers was there. Maybe you went to that game. Who knows? That was tons of fun. And then you went over to Michigan. So some pretty

20:11 big universities, right? Where are your allegiances, man? Who do you root for? Man, I don't have any sports allegiances whatsoever. I'll be honest. That's the, about the lowest priority of my

20:22 life priority list. That's what, that's what we're gonna cause. So Jeremy's going to have to end the podcast now is my lack of interest in sports. So I can't have a sports conversation with anyone

20:34 to say your life. I see your walls filled with sports figures. They were so clearly, you know, yeah, it's just me. Um,

20:44 we could always revert back to sports. And this, you know, it's time is just a little bit, you know, we can, we're talking about why I don't know where you're at on that front. I got a good

20:51 wine knowledge. We could also, uh, you know, uh, it's good No, we, we could, um, and yeah, got him stomped. Okay. I don't know. So the matrix over here. I lost it. So I told you it was

21:07 going to be rusty today. This is our first

21:10 vacation brain, just shaking it off. And then the fourth, and I think something happened where like you were out the week before doing some, some travels. So we haven't actually recorded in a few

21:19 weeks. I'm like, I know I'm going to stumble today. I know that's okay. Chris, I didn't want to. We're we're moving into the personal side of this but I want to revert back one of the thing so

21:30 one thing that strikes me I know we've been pushing this we run into is a lot of times it in my business but a lot of these your likely customers I perceive aren't ready for or weren't ready certainly

21:46 in two thousand twelve thirteen fourteen weren't ready for your technology have you seen that change you know in your over the last five years and his coven changed it

21:59 I dunno it's changed I mean a covert accelerate all sort of digital transformation so I guess it's hard for me said read it hasn't I would say that in the last year honestly postcode or like last six

22:14 months nine months as always reorg has finished up and all the consolidation is sort of stabilize at least most of it I have seen a very Different state of readiness from our customers then maybe not

22:28 necessarily immediately pre coven but like certainly two years ago three years ago three years ago as particularly on the production side of the house were of course we're focused there were various

22:40 customers our super majors who had a cloud establish and were actively moving skater data operations down into a data lake now I'm coming across customers that are otherwise were perceived as not the

22:55 most technology for in some cases pretty big customers you're bigger independents who low and behold are working with Us and have you know not all of their skin data but some of the core skated out of

23:06 moving into a data lake figuring out how to make create value out of it but honestly I'm going to give most of that credit to eight of US and to azure more than anyone else for whether it's kicking

23:20 and screaming or whether it's showing a division or showing on the how, but they have, I think, been sort of leading the charge in digital readiness and particularly cloud readiness and cloud

23:32 proficiency. So as our customers are starting to understand that the future is cloud and that they gotta go down that road, we start to be a lot less scary. And as they have their own clouds, they

23:45 start to be able to speak the language and have, you know, not everyone's proficient in cloud, at least you've got some players that you can work with on the customer side that have enough cloud

23:52 proficiency, so we can really start to have like reasonable technology conversations. Yeah, essentially, they've kind of demystified the cloud. Yeah. And you know, I think the other thing

24:03 that's gone on is, you know, maybe through my kids and other people, I've, you're starting to be able to release your data outside of your walls. You're starting to feel like it's more the norm

24:17 You're comfortable because everything else is happening out in the cloud in your personal life your bureau more comfortable letting us you know we can't let our forecast be up in the cloud that's too

24:28 scary cause I think everyone's gotten much more comfortable at that so maybe it made it made a little bit easier and that's that's definitely part of it I mean we at this point had the ability to

24:37 deploy in our own cloud tenant whether that's eight of US whether that's azure or we can also deploy into our customers cloud tenant so that helps with the security sort of the the concept of AM I

24:51 going to let this data go to someone else's cloud now to be honest there's a bunch of customers are very proactive put that option front of over the last month or so and mostly they're telling me no

25:02 no no no we're we're good if you put in your tenant we actually had a customer tell the Jaeger tents probably more secure than ours is refreshing to hear the truth we we face a lot of time and money

25:14 into The Cyber Security aspect of how everything is architected note of sock to stuff so you know I am glad that someone's giving us a little credit on that front but it was six months ago I would

25:27 have thought like a ship me to be we need to be ready to drop into our customers tenants because I think that's going to take some of these security control concerns off the table but honestly it'd be

25:36 like pushing that as a deployment mala most customers are shopping at there are a few that are very much interested go down that road but Yeah it's it's definitely it's a bit of all of the world which

25:47 to me is great for me because it makes all of these conversations for us a whole lot easier

25:53 Yeah You're going to have to follow the industry trends and oil and gas can be a laggard sometimes but it's it's good you know I love the book crossing the chasm I'm sure that you're familiar with it

26:04 whether you've read it or not it's it's great right but most companies are laggards right so you need to find the people that are the early adopters and want to be champions of this which you have

26:14 right now it's about getting over that hump crossing that chasm where it's like well of course everybody needs to do this level of optimization on wells have at least a certain size right our

26:25 financial discipline and and all that data being available like let's let's make it work so weird so I'm curious from the the ambient perspective like doing a lot of cool stuff in in production

26:37 production optimization where else do you see applying kind of the the algorithm or the meat behind the application into other areas is in other disciplines within oil and gas is it drilling like like

26:51 where do you take what you've built and rican repurpose it yeah means coral is pretty much crush the drilling market so that the readiness on the drilling optimization side they were ready for

27:05 corporate type solutions four years ago and production is just starting to get around to it interesting for practice Iraq was definitely a lower state of readiness than drilling now and now real time

27:17 to track optimization is starting to actually get some real traction to production arguably is the laggard of all the laggards in an industry that's already elaborate I would I would enact but

27:31 honestly we've also we've been asked to get into reservoir by customers and we have a full real time analysis engine at this point where that's sort of as close to reservoir as we want again I mean

27:41 it's it's Upper reservoir but you're not going to go do as the reservoir simulator there's no takis other folks have gone to check for us what's a lot more interesting is taking all this what we've

27:52 really built process control automation and process control optimization what's a lot more for us is taking that outside of the well pad and we made you go look at compressor management that's one

28:03 thing that's immediately adjacent to Wattpad but probably looking to other industrial locals Winter Wind Solar Optimization Yeah I mean any expensive piece of industrial equipment has the opportunity

28:19 to forage for process control optimization knowledge Yeah it'll be fun for me to Watch Rey Cause I I Think You're Right You're You're sort of just waiting for the market to to catch up and and fully

28:30 accepted embrace this and it's coming quickly right and then there's so many other areas and things you can do to improve which Tim I'm going to jump in real quick and ask another one and this has to

28:40 do with sort of the E S G energy transition you know you kind of sitting in the seat that you're you're in having a background I see with a water company as well how do you leverage what you have are

28:51 sort of What's your view on applying technology toward the E S G movement versus you know a lot of you know maybe a little bit of fluff and stories people don't understand Yeah so we actually have a

29:03 very compelling story in a highly proven and not only proven but audited story on GHG emission reduction so we've taken a bunch of of Grants from some Canadian government entities one of which is the

29:20 as DTC sustainable development technology Canada and they're all sort of You you must prove GHD years from the emissions reductions to to get into that program and take that money so for both R -ala

29:35 optimization we can reduce scope two emissions really just reducing electricity costs Arabic electricity consumption and we got numbers that are audited that are backed up so we got all slabs with

29:46 summarizes the missions with our potential and then unpleasant side things similarly we will actually not scope to scope once a week and upward you scope one methane emissions within the context of

29:58 pointless seeing the the instances of liquid loading events, and therefore the instances of things like venting, you're venting that gas to the atmosphere. And then on the gas, those side of

30:10 things, similarly, we can usually, our customers are dramatically over-injecting their gas, so a bunch of high-powered compressors, so we can help reduce the injection gas, and therefore the

30:21 tool to work that some of these compressors are doing. So again, scope to emissions, but it's not like blow your socks off necessarily, but they're numbers that help a EMP, they're your boss who

30:33 has sexed. They can help an EMP contribute to what our pretty ambitious UHU emissions reduction goals across the border, right?

30:42 Dude, you're a really good speaker. I just gotta say, I mean, you're rockin'. I could listen to you speak. I mean, I can tell that you've briefed, you've given briefings before. Like you said,

30:53 speaking to analysts and kind of breaking down things that are pretty complex 'cause trust me, this is not, That's simple. You've never met a worse audience than a 27-year-old sell-side analyst,

31:07 or I guess it's buy-side, sorry, a 27-year-old analyst in a short-selling hedge fund. They get paid like300, 000, 400, 000, they're 27, and they made the mistake of thinking that they're worth

31:20 that much money, and therefore they have the attitude and entitlement that goes along with that They're just going to throw spears at you the whole time. Oh, Mr. Worse, they'll pepper you with

31:33 questions, and I'll be honest, I knew my shit at the time, so I could answer pretty much all their questions with a very, you know, an answer backed by evidence and real-world anecdotes, but

31:45 they would never let you finish a question. You would get 10 seconds in your response, and it would hit you with the new one, and then it hit you with the new one and it's incredibly frustrating

31:56 and obviously disrespectful. I honestly don't know learning to go do that too much just out I was looking you know what your background and that is an interesting segue you know you were obviously

32:08 you you exited accompany to HS I guess you you sat there for whatever period of time you were required to sit there nine months yeah no one really loggins digest that's not really I just er zijn know

32:20 Chris Hansen a Senator he was and guests have and to tripping over the barrel Guys know he's a Colorado State Senator Sarah from Sarah met him but I think my brother Alex Sat on a flight next to him

32:38 with dignity coming back from Calgary and I like a great like hour long conversation was like really really sharp Guy right we're trying to push him to run for president in two thousand and thirty two

32:47 he wasn't having any of that yet bought yet work to work to be done today but nonetheless he also has some water related entities so I just think something for you to Keep in mind when You're when

32:59 You're in Denver next but anyway My Question Jeremy I Know I was going to say Cut you Off I'm Sorry Sir Your Exit you Spend your Time and I chess and then you you kind of became you are on the

33:09 investment side and you know looking for your your next thing but you are you know in operations at one company that an investor and now you can have back operating ambient and I Guess I AM curious

33:20 about that transition and you know what I mean and yes so expensive Donnas investor and honestly the time the investor was mostly about finding the next like full time thing to to focus on we looked

33:35 at a number of different options for setting de back started from scratch to let me in we found existing company and recap them and then sort of took over operating rules from there but I think I did

33:48 learn that being in a lesser role I AM probably not the best investor

33:56 i like to get my hands dirty and get involved as her deal closer to an operating role and so he just I got very impatient in that strictly industry focused role so by the time we found an ID and we

34:09 you know along the process to bring others were syndicated of series a investors together so by the time we were sort of there and starting to get you much more deeply lol right around the time Tim I

34:20 think I probably connected with you I was definitely ready to just dig my hands in and just get dirty and just build rebuilding rebuilding back so you keep saying we now I think I know who the other

34:33 part of the weird and and so it used to spend a lot of time working with Alex your brother and it just got me thinking working with my brother for Al five ten ten years yet I'm not sure I could pull

34:47 that off cause you guys know too much about each other you can push buttons and and do things so what was That but before the Freelancer that Tim are we going to have your brother on the podcast like

34:57 we've we need to get his linkedin profile uPs so it actually makes sense for us to get him on but Yeah we will have it because he could tell us a great because you can push my buttons but Yeah what

35:07 man at Okay Anyways Sorry you Mister Robot Funny Enough I was with some folks and neighbor we actually got into this exact conversation

35:19 working so I started working together with and I guess for the honest doesn't know my twin brother we have relatively recently identical twin brother of it's arousal he worked together in business

35:32 since really two thousand and eight two thousand and seven even on the top and I'll be honest the first two or maybe three years of working together were very challenging we

35:46 obviously have a sibling jeremy I dunno assuming you do

35:50 there's a certain level of casual asshole this you can sort of bring to a sibling relationship that you cannot to a professional relationship at least most of them well yeah it's like look Alex would

36:01 you just quit breathing it's like it never stops with you as in out in out so there are some various periods of time for the first particularly the first two or three years of work together or we got

36:14 into some folks that were extremely unproductive and maybe even toxic rain so we would have to have this big blow out sort of communications expectations management conversations and they would help

36:27 and we eventually figured it out but it was and is tougher than it was real tough road Yeah but I mean it's not tim it's not like they had bunk beds like when they were twenty seven years old working

36:38 together how did you you did or did not have a we were we never had we always had our own rooms growing up we never had to really have that level of intimacy that's that's great and I'm just giving

36:51 you a hard time Now, this has been a ton of fun. I know that you have a call to get ready for it and really helping us test out as the first like full video podcast that we've done. It's been fun,

37:03 it'll take some getting used to, but I think I thoroughly enjoyed this. My last question for you then as we wind this thing down is

37:18 going forward

37:21 Will the financial industry be able to swallow its pride and come back and allow the rig count to increase and drilling to go up as we start to approach100 oil? Will that be allowed to happen from

37:37 the finance market because you know if the money is available and oil is a hundred bucks, people will drill.

37:46 I, maybe not to the same level of exuberance that we saw back in like 2011 and then 2014 again, or maybe 2015, maybe, like we not took those levels, but the money will come back. If there's

38:01 money to be made that it will come back, money will come back. I think that the, this whole GHG and HSE part of the story, um, everyone's got every, you know, portfolio company, every, you

38:15 know, public entity needs to have a convincing story to tell, uh, because the investors need a convincing story to tell to their limited partners, right? So I think I don't have to get the shit

38:27 together on that front and not just have a story because mostly it's just been a story to date, right? Um, but I think they'll actually have to have actions demonstrating what they've done to back

38:37 that up. And that's when some of the institutional investors will start to be a little more comfortable with dipping back into that water, but I don't think it's gonna be like. I don't it's not

38:46 gonna be great. It's not gonna be the wild wild west again

38:50 Man, I hope not honestly because you know what happens when you know recounts climb supply chain tightens up crisis get crazy and You know everyone can make money at a hundred dollar oil, right?

39:01 And then you know what's the old don't boom pickings line about when the when the shit, I'm gonna bush with this analogy, but when

39:10 the the blanket on the damn word here the the Ties there we go when the tide falls you see like you know, which boats sink or something like that This is the worst analogy of

39:25 We're not editing that out Chris. That's gonna stay in sorry. Sorry. You screw up you strip your human I know the

39:37 feeling we have hours and hours of content where I just simply don't remember what I'm saying But nonetheless, make sure that you say hi to Autumn Shisha for us. Tim hired autumn like a month after

39:47 he hired me at Energy navigator it was very very familial love autumn and and and really appreciate respect what you got going on buds want to look back to an earlier part when we when I saw Chris in

39:58 the airport in Pittsburgh he was he had just gotten out of a six hour car ride with autumn it's true Oh My God he looked worn out she she could talk the whole time I don't know Man Yeah That's Awesome

40:16 I Guys appreciate that you added me on how to join the Conversation Jeremy's nice to finally meet you in person sort of gives me a good interest in looking forward to keeping up the conversation

40:27 absolutely take care Bro Thanks brother