What The Funk?

0:01 one, two, three, four, we're testing again. We're testing from a laying down and blah,

0:09 where women grow and men make software.

0:14 Could you hear? Could you hear the thunder? Oh yeah, because Riley is coming. This company is called

0:25 Edler. That's got to be the worst intro ever journey. Shocking.

0:30 Whoops. So anyways, anyways, Timothy. Wow. Sure. It's been a long time. I want to say that it's been a month plus. Has it been? It's certainly beginning of November was our last recording

0:46 session. It's amazing. It's been almost a month. And that time you went to

0:54 UAE Abu Dhabi and Dubai. And then Thanksgiving happened. And then You, of course, went on sabbatical there for what a week or so, right? Yeah, I was on a retreat, no phones, no screens,

1:06 anything like that for eight days, which was cathartic, but it hasn't changed my propensity or desire to apparently sing and butcher a song in honor of our guest today. I'm just, I'm really

1:18 worried that we just offended all of Australia with that, with the cliche song down under, I'm just worried we offended everybody This guy's like,

1:33 this guy's a star too. Tim, we're gonna get into all of this. But yeah, I just wanted to say, Tim, I appreciate you. I know I told you this when I got out of the podcast session. The podcast

1:47 itself has been a huge positive for me. I think it's been great for, I mean, at least a lot of people that come up to me and say they really appreciate us doing the podcast. It was nice, like I

1:58 think it was good for us to take a little bit of a break and now I looked and this is gonna be like the 82nd episode, which is crazy, like I never would have thought that. And it's amazing that

2:07 we're still doing this, you know? Yeah, and I'm reminded all the time by when people will pull out nuggets from something that we said in a podcast and wow, people are actually listening to this

2:17 thing. Yeah, yeah, I was just on the Digital Wildcatters boiling gas startups podcast, which was really fun. It's fun to see yourself on somebody else's too and just the way they interact and how

2:28 you are as a guest 'cause it's much different, right? This show, like we do significantly less of the talking, but except for apparently today, when I'm the

2:37 only one that's gonna talk.

2:40 So Riley O'Donnell is my guy. He's, yeah, this is gonna change, right? So Riley is an award winner. Tim, this is a question, no judgment if the answer's no. Are you familiar with Y Combinator?

2:53 Y Combinator?

2:56 No idea

3:00 what that is. Well, Y Combinator is something that Riley is gonna get into and briefly describe, right? As it weaves into his life. But before we get into the professional, Riley, because you

3:08 and I have mostly dealt on a professional level. Tell us a little bit about yourself growing up in Australia, your path through university, working for some of the majors on the engineering side of

3:19 things, building out tech and what got you to today

3:23 Sure, I guess always being in Australia, it's a great place to live. Awesome weather, awesome people, big country, great surf, great beaches. Everyone should come and visit Australia, boost

3:36 the tourism, come back after COVID, 'cause we're still not letting people into the country, or out really.

3:47 But I actually didn't know I wanted to do engineering until kind of like second year uni So I actually went into uni not, basically through eliminating what I didn't want to do. didn't want to be a

3:57 lawyer, didn't want to be a doctor. Seems like engineering's a good option. Engineering or finance. So did chemical engineering, finances a dual degree, got exposure to investment banking, got

4:10 exposure to the engineering side, realized I really liked building solutions or technology to solve problems that people were having. And so just ended up diving way deeper down that aspect of it So

4:24 wound up across a variety of spaces, like some bioprocess stuff, some lithium plant design. And then of course, oil and gas. And that's sort of how I wound up starting Endler was basically that

4:38 in the two big companies I was working for, I ended up doing a lot of internal software development there and realized that there was big gaps and sort of saw what was happening in the software world

4:51 in terms of the exciting stuff and the rapid improvement are able to solve new and challenging problems thanks to all the sort of tools that are popping up around software engineers and kind of

5:05 imagine a future in process or heavy industries where engineers really have auto design and auto optimization and auto analytics type tools that around them that really enhance their productivity and

5:19 also mean they get to work on the harder and more interesting problems rather than the sort of mundane that so many people end up having to do day to day.

5:31 So I mean, I guess you, you went to, I mean, I'm just looking at your profile here. So you went, got out of school. I guess you went to, you did some, was it internships or you worked

5:40 directly with Santos and then, yeah, mix, then went to Exxon. Yeah, did, did a bit of exposure in, in both to get a feel around. Part of that was internships and part of that was working part

5:51 time while I was studying And then

5:55 once I graduated, made, made the call that I was, made the call to spend, spend a year or six months working on, working on sort of Envler, what was just sort of concept at that time. And we

6:08 landed a big contract with a big public company here, Origin Energy. And that was sort of like, okay, well, this can be a real thing, we're solving a real problem here, but building tech that a

6:20 massive company has sort of gone, we need this. And that was sort of like the green flag to go all in and give it a real shot at. at building the kind of company that I've envisioned.

6:35 So hold on there, there's another nugget in it. Hold on now, cowboy. So you're in university with the vision for Enmo. So working for these oil companies was really just a means to an end to you.

6:49 No, it's not that goal of Enmo. No, you wanted to do the best employee that's ever lived. What are you talking about? I think the realization that there was a need for someone to build this

7:01 company came as a result of working in the space and realizing the shortcomings that existed, but having been exposed to the software world and realizing like how it can be, like it's quite easy to

7:14 sort of not realize that there's this potential for the software to take a huge step forward from where it's at, if that's all you've ever been exposed to. But because I was across different areas,

7:26 I got to see what it could be. and be able to imagine how we could better solve a lot of the things we're working on.

7:38 So I almost wish that you, I'm sorry, go ahead. We've got a, let me go to, we've got a couple of second delay. It's not instantaneous. Oh, no, I, it's all right. We can always chop this

7:49 part out. We can always chop this part out too, if we have to. So I'll stop talking. Well, you didn't have, I didn't have the vision right at the start. It was, it, it came, came to be as a

7:59 result of kind of like observing the problems and observing the shortcomings of existing stuff

8:12 Fantastic.

8:16 I want to talk a little bit more about Enla. Full disclosure, Enla is a funk futures client. We have a number of clients. Enla is unique in a number of different ways.

8:31 That said,

8:46 I think that it's a very interesting time for Enla because their growth path, Tim, realistically is in the US. But these guys can't leave Australia, right? So we always ask the question. Yeah,

8:49 I mean, it's right. So we always ask this question like, how has COVID affected your business? You've never lived in a non-COVID business world. So I'm really curious from your standpoint, how

9:01 have you navigated that and even going through Y Combinator, doing things in a remote world that are somewhat unheard of in oil and gas?

9:11 Oh, I mean, I actually think it's really good that we've begun as a remote first company and we're really getting to see that it is possible to do business in an entirely remote way because it means

9:26 like from the very earliest stage of the company, we can work across multiple time zones. We can have the best engineers working with us regardless of what country or city or place on earth is

9:41 sitting in and we can work with companies across the world no matter sort of where they are. And I think if we were in a world where we had to be sitting in the same room to do business, that would

9:55 limit our growth more because how can you be in multiple countries working with multiple clients all at the same time? How can you, if you're restricting yourself to hiring people from the same city,

10:07 Like how do you hire those awesome software? developers who are not just great at developing software but also understand first principles physics and are really good at working with maths and then

10:18 can also get their heads around the domain knowledge required to build a really deep tech in the oil and gas space. So I think by saying you've got to work in a physical world or a non-cribid world

10:33 where you've got to deal face to face would actually in many ways be far worse than being thrust from the beginning and being like forced into being remote because it's not something that you would

10:44 have tried before. You wouldn't have gone, yep, let's just go remote and see how it goes whereas we got to start that way and realized that it has so many benefits. Kind of sucks that I can't go

10:56 over there and give you a good hug Jeremy, but

11:02 I can assume enough face on a camera instead

11:08 Go ahead, Tim. Yeah, that being said. you know, there's still, I'm gonna play the old guy 'cause I am the old guy in this one. There's still some clearly benefit to be able to shake hands and

11:21 sit across and put your hands on a well or something. So there's still some benefit to it. So how are you tackling the disadvantages of being remote as your,

11:35 you know, basically trying to, you're targeting clients, right? So what are those, how are you tackling that disadvantage of not being able to be present and being remote?

11:48 So we don't work in the physical asset space. So we're not providing physical services. So that's helpful. Otherwise we'd be screwed, I

11:58 think. Yep. And I think building a relationship over a camera is like really difficult slash maybe not even possible. And so it means like more so than ever the tech that we're providing has to

12:13 stand on its own two feet. Like it has to just be so good that there doesn't need to be a relationship. It doesn't need to be that these guys buy me a sweet lunch on a Friday and they take us for

12:25 drinks every fortnight and wine and dine us because we can't do that. We have to just deliver software that's so bloody good that they get a bonus and they can wine and dine themselves with a nice

12:38 steak dinner on a, when that sweet check comes into their account.

12:43 First Fortnite reference ever on this podcast. I was gonna replay the American. What's a Fortnite? No, but also it's a very popular video game and nobody's mentioned it regarding that on this

12:56 podcast either. So first time mentioned Fortnite in the true sense of the word Fortnite. I didn't mean it. I didn't mean it. This is, this is.

13:07 Tim, this is, yeah, I know. I think you meant two weeks, mate. Yeah? That little is, I don't know. So Tim, I - It's not even lingo.

13:16 No, I don't know. I think it's non-American - Or British. It's like old British or something like that. Okay. That was an English major, college. No, I wasn't, that's not true at all. So,

13:29 Tim, I'm, so this to me is, I love it, right? So, you are more than double Riley's age, right? He's more in line with the age of your daughters, as a matter of fact. Maybe the same age as

13:40 one of your daughters. Yeah, my older daughter is, in fact, the same age as Riley's. As well. So, the mindset that he just mentioned is, it's exactly the mindset I would have if I was 24 also,

13:53 because you look at the companies that have taken over the world, like Facebook didn't have to wine and dine people to use their product, right? People just eventually started using their product

14:03 and Instagram and coming to them, which is the same thing that happens truly with all of the best. tech companies. What's different in terms of oil and gas is it's been such an in person industry

14:15 for so long. And of course, on the physical assets, I guess you're never going to be able to just like, have a robot sit in the backseat of a car where it drops the robot off and can

14:28 have. But no, I mean,

14:32 let's see, you know, I'm here for it. I'm going to be here for it. But oil and gas traditionally, I think has been as much business done in person as as any other other industry, which is

14:44 probably the same in Australia too, right? I would just guess that sort of permeates. Have you done business with your clients face to face or has it all been remote to this point? Yeah, of

14:54 course, face to face. Like, it's great fun to go and just have a yarn, have a coffee, have a beer. But a

15:04 lot of stuff we've also just done remote because like

15:07 A lot of our clients have decided that, well, if I don't need to be in the office, the beach is a pretty nice place to live. And so we're actually seeing here that it's not just us that's going

15:18 remote, it's actually the clients that are realizing we're already running remote operations. Like,

15:24 why do we have to actually be in the city, in the CBD? We can come into the CBD for our key meetings, two days a week and work from home remotely, the other three. And so I think the

15:40 frequency of that, despite the fact that lockdowns have ended, has somewhat sort of,

15:48 it's moved to that being like very much a normal way of doing business now, because I think in many ways it's more productive. And you get to concentrate that in person interaction on the days that

16:00 are sort of required and be super productive in a quieter environment on those other days.

16:11 It's interesting how,

16:14 I was, we did the first remote experiment for me was, you know, started in 2000. And it's interesting in 2000 to 2008 when I was working out of my house remotely.

16:28 We actively, the company I work for, Spotfire, we actively tried to hide that we were working out of our homes. We didn't want people to know that we were working remotely So we put, you know,

16:37 we had various techniques to make it look like we were together or sound like we were together and things like that. Because, you know, our clients just simply didn't respect. Yeah. You didn't

16:47 quite work with a home didn't have a home. Yeah. We were blessed. And now,

16:55 and now this morning, I had a call with a client and his little Schnauzer wanted in the picture. And it's now perfectly acceptable for everybody on the call Yeah, okay, that's. We expect to see

17:09 those kinds of things. Well, it's not even important. It's just interesting how far we come. Yeah, it's even that some of the best companies in the world are really pushing the work from home

17:20 because it's a, well, it's better in many ways but it also means you get to access talent that you couldn't have otherwise accessed. And I think the talent, the employees are really looking for

17:38 the ability to be at home and remove the one hour commute or whatever else for their own quality of life. So if employers are having to offer, of course, these benefits to allow them to work from

17:53 home and retain the talent.

17:56 Yeah, exactly. So let's get a little bit specific. I want to get a little bit specific with endless. You have a vision in mind and a particular set of problems that you're trying to solve. I

18:07 wanna be, there's gotta be a better way type mentality. So what is the specific approach that Enla has or the things that you're trying to solve with your approach to technology? What are those,

18:23 what's the meat of the company trying to solve?

18:27 So we're really focused on the workflows right now which are around like deep analysis or actual design work. So imagine you're trying to come up with a design for a well and you've got some

18:44 simulation software you can use to help sort of test your potential design and see how it might go. But as an engineer, I've got to sit in the software and actually put in and come up with that

18:57 design that I think is worthwhile simulating myself. I've got to enter all that daughter in go to go, okay, run the simulation and I get some results back and then I'm going to change a few things

19:09 or maybe move something around, do it again. And that's like really time consuming and slow and I'm going to give up and I'm not going to find the best solution. And I'm also going to spend a heap

19:19 of time just stuffing around entering data and changing constraints and

19:24 variables. But why should the engineer have to do that stuff? Computers are way better at solving well-defined problems than we are. And so why not define the problem well and then utilize the

19:45 immense and very cheap cloud compute there is to parallelize that problem on a massive scale, send out all these little workers to work on subsets of that problem and then bring back an answer in a

19:59 matter of minutes that's way better than what you could and engineer on your own, but also done way, way faster. And so that's what we've done in the space with our existing customers in the CSG.

20:13 So we've gone and automated that process of coming up with the final well design. So we do that in a matter of minutes, what would normally have taken two to four hours and the designs we come up

20:25 with are way better than what the engineers were coming up with before.

20:34 So is this drilling and completion design type of, that's the end of the result? We're very early stage still. So we're just working, we've entered in on the niche, which is the actual completion

20:45 itself. So, and now we've really nailed that niche. We can apply that, sort of the really challenging part is how do you effectively solve that problem in the cloud? We can, that's our core tech

20:58 and we can apply that to many other problems. And so that's what we're doing now. We're expanding from our niche and working across other domains. And that's where it's like really exciting in the

21:07 US because that can be the, that can be another domain. Like every well type is a bit different. And you get to work with a customer to sort of implement that new tech in a new well type and sort

21:21 of take this big step change versus what's currently being done.

21:26 And that's - Let's drill a little bit deeper Let's drill a little bit deeper. It is very cool. And I know what you're gonna say. Yeah. Well, let's complete the conversation and drill a little bit

21:39 deeper. You're waiting for us to go. That's a good pun.

21:44 You know, Ellie, my wife does that all the time too. Like if I say something that I think is kind of funny and there's no reaction, I just repeat it. She's like, no, I didn't laugh 'cause it's

21:53 not funny. Not like that's not inviting you to say it again 'cause it was funny. That's not how things work. We didn't miss what you said.

22:01 So let me get like a more concrete example, right? So you find a company in really anywhere in the world that has a drilling program of say, call it 50 wells, right? And for all of their new

22:14 drilling completes, there's somebody that's creating what looks like the optimal completion design and that is a Herculean task to pull the data together and allow people to actually do analysis and

22:28 pick the best possible completion design. What you've taken is the auto design, the auto completion capability to basically say this is your most likely

22:42 best outcome. We think is right here and this is what you should do and then boom, right? Is that sort of the concept? So streamlining a process that's very brute force right now. And like also

22:53 like to a level providing transparency too, right, because your, your DNC team is They're objective is to reduce costs, like put the thing in the ground as cheap as it can. Their bonuses aren't

23:07 linked to how much gas is coming out of this well in two years' time. Their bonuses aren't linked to how much is it costing us to operate this well in two years' time. But there are other teams that

23:19 do care about those things, but those conflict with the drilling costs. And so whoever's the owner of actually deciding what goes in the ground at the end of the day kind of has this overwhelming

23:31 control and not necessarily any transparency on what trade-offs were being made on the decisions when that was going in the ground. So that's also something that we kind of are helping with, where

23:42 it's sure you can go for the very cheapest option. But just be aware, there were these other options here too. And it's really powerful with cycling, oil and gas prices too, which kind of think

23:55 are gonna become more extreme in terms of the cycles where you can.

23:60 those trade-offs you want to make are not always going to be the same, like when prices are not great, you just want to reduce costs as much as you can. But if you're in a phase of the cycle where

24:10 it's like crazy prices, you want to optimize the way you're drilling to get extra gas. And if that means spending a little more capital, that's probably worthwhile.

24:25 very cool. Yes, fascinating. I was up on the end low website, you know, spinning your 3D image around, which is really cool. Well, I mean, it's being

24:37 it was really cool. I mean, it was really a neat looking thing. And it really, I thought at least it was kind of very intuitive, at least for me to be able to spin it around. But go a little

24:46 lighter side. So, Enla, what, how did you come up with that name? What does that mean? Yeah, when I, when we originally started, it was myself and Cornel's and his got South African heritage.

25:02 And one of the native languages in South Africa is this hunger. And Enla in that language means make build create and seemed pretty fitting. Yeah, it's like great meaning behind it and sounds good,

25:18 easy to say, and the domain was available. So it's pretty. kind of ticks all the right boxes. So that's that's why we went with it.

25:31 That's that's that's just one of the better name stories I can come that are out there. That's very good.

25:37 It's the end of the world as we know it. Not quietly.

25:47 Y Combinator. I want to talk a little bit about Y Combinator. So, Tim, you mentioned early on, you have not heard about this. Riley, give us just a very quick snippet on what Y Combinator is,

25:58 why you guys went into the program, and what the significance is. And let me just preface it by saying, I think there's only four or five companies in the history of Australia that have gone

26:08 through it. But Riley, give us the quick Y Combinator. It's harder to get into Y Combinator than it is to get into Harvard or any of those top tier unis in the US, much harder, actually Um, well,

26:20 the white combinator is one of the most renowned, or the most renowned start off. accelerator in the world, they backed companies that you've certainly heard of, Airbnb. So they were the first

26:31 investor in companies like that, backed them right when they were just two people starting out in the company. Same as DoorDash, DoorDash, Reddit, Coinbase, Instacart,

26:45 whole bunch of industrial type companies in the biospace and other spaces shipping. So just

26:54 incredible companies that have started out by going through that accelerator program.

27:03 So you guys got into that program, is that they find you, you find them, how does that work? Yeah, so we apply. We put in an application. They liked

27:16 the sound and traction of what we'd been working on. We got an interview. Our interview actually ran over time, which is pretty unusual. Then a couple hours later, you get the phone call from,

27:28 in our case, Michael Siebel, who was a co-founder of Twitch, who you've probably also heard of. True. Twitch TV. And he was like, Hey, guys, you're in. And it's sort of like, Wow, that's

27:41 pretty sick. So how do things change for you, the entrepreneur, from, Yeah, you guys are into before you're in. What actually happens in that world? Is it, I mean, how do they help you kind

27:57 of go at that point? Yeah, I mean, I have the network. is like really key piece to it. So they've got incredible resources that help you from a perspective of succeeding or avoiding. Like a lot

28:12 of it's about avoiding mistakes. So they've seen a lot of startups. They know how you can fail. So they are able to help you avoid those mistakes and provide some guidance on how to succeed. And

28:25 they also hook you into like an amazing network of investors and also like incredibly good talent pool to hire from. And that's been like a huge advantage for us as well. And in the tech space as a

28:42 tech company, the reputation, like going through Y Combinator

28:48 gets you access to that network that you otherwise you don't really have And so that was, that was pretty fun for us.

28:60 Yeah, I mean, congratulations, first of all. Second, I believe that Enla is only the second ever oil and gas software specific company to have gone through Y Combinator, the other is MineralSoft,

29:15 which was eventually acquired by Inverus. So certainly a good track record there, but really, really neat. And it's, I'd heard of it before, just because it's sort of just out there, but

29:26 because it's not in the direct oil and gas software world, I just don't know of as many companies. So super cool, obviously keeping the right kind of company there and a great way to start kind of

29:38 start out of the gate. Tim, I'm curious from your seat, right? You've always been an engineer, right? Do you, well, what do you consider your expertise on the drilling and especially the

29:50 completion side? Is that still sort of your sweet spot or is it starting to hedge outside of it? Well, you know, I'm more production and reservoir than I am on completion.

30:01 The client of the guy that Riley referred to is,

30:07 the client of, we received the well after it's already been drilled and completed. But, you know, fundamentally understand, I mean, we used to have a joke in the industry that the number one

30:15 well-designed tool or completion design tool was a Xerox machine. You know, hey, what did we do in that well? Did it work? Okay, then we'll do it in this well And, you know, okay, we're doing

30:28 28 stage frack. What if we do 30 stage frack? So I think that that's probably more true still today than actually, you know, I mean, we're applying science and we're learning more all the time

30:43 and we're experimenting, but yeah, if it works in this well, we're gonna try it over there. Rather than really optimizing, I think truly optimizing, which is I think what I'm hearing from Riley

30:54 here is that, you know, how do we truly optimize and make. best decision for this well for now and 20 years from now. And I don't know if I've got that right, Riley, but again, I think we do a

31:09 lot of rule of thumb stuff still. Yeah, we think we're doing a lot of rule of thumb decision making an uncertain environment is tricky. Like the approach you take in conventional when you're

31:23 drilling a hundred million dollar wells is like very different. You've got to be pretty sure of what you're doing there. But when you're drilling hundreds of wells, it's like you don't need to

31:35 overdesign them. But there's also a lot of room for the right level of effort in designing each one uniquely too. And like you want to you want to have a factory operation, but producing unique.

31:51 Unique wells.

31:54 I love that. And I feel like I've tried to summarize that too. My good friend Abe Shasha has been saying this for years, that oil and gas is heading into its manufacturing era where we need to be

32:05 able to very quickly with minimal G and A and overhead and repeatably drill and complete and produce oil wells. But it's just been such a human and like a decision making made by individuals

32:19 component that's going to eventually have to shift And I think this is kind of ushering in that era. Tim, real quick, I want to bring something else up too that is, Riley, I'm not sure if you

32:20 know this, but Tim actually was very early in the game bringing spot fire to the oil and gas industry. So Tim was like kind of early in the analytics and visualization side of things. And I said to

32:21 you the other day, I said, Hey, do you have familiarity with spot fire, Riley? And if so, I'm like, Hey, some of the shit that builds in that thing I'm looking if so.

32:56 Could you sort of replicate what you do in Enla in SpaFire? And Tim, I've never seen somebody more offended by question in their life. But no, I'm curious, did you play around a little bit in

33:08 SpaFire in the motivation to do Enla? Why not pick a platform like that? What made you decide to sort of use the flat front on that you guys chose? I'm extremely familiar with SpaFire. I spent

33:22 most of my time at Santos playing in that. In that software, some other stuff that we were putting together was pretty bloody cool, given the restraints that, I mean, SpaFire is not an

33:35 engineering tool. It's like a business analytics tool that a lot of companies really have forced into using as an engineering tool. And so just the level of complexity that was being added into

33:51 scripting inside of it interacting with all the rest of the world.

33:54 applications to get around some of the limitations of what could be done inside a spot fire was

34:02 It made you want to pull your hair out quite a bit Like some of them, but we built some really cool stuff in it like online performance monitoring of compresses using Using in situ sensors. So

34:11 basically tracking the polytropic efficiency of that compressor over time

34:20 To more smartly determine when maintenance should be done. So we could see that the fuel the consumption of fuel was increasing And we could we could track that by the efficiency dropping and then

34:32 make a really smart decision around when maintenance should be done because your fuel costs had increased above the point of the shutdown cost to do that maintenance cycle, but likewise you could

34:44 also make the decision to extend And so like that was all done in spotfire, but that was a

34:50 huge project to do inside a spotfire and was done, it could have been done way better outside of Spotify. And that's

35:01 sort of

35:03 the barrier. That was like as much as you could really manage to do in Spotify, whereas what we're doing, you can't even do on a single computer where what we're doing couldn't be done if it wasn't

35:14 for utilizing cloud compute resources. Like we're spinning up thousands of parallel computers to solve the problems. And you can't do that in Spotify, like just from a pure compute perspective.

35:31 You can't draw on a lot of the existing, like one of the really cool things in the software space is how many open source projects there are. You don't have to build everything from scratch. You

35:41 just take pieces that other people have already done and you add to it. And that's why we get like this rapid acceleration and in development because there's so much stuff to draw on.

35:54 Or a Spotify, you don't quite have that same ability. It's not as open. You can't do those things. It's really good for doing visualizations, taking data. But if you need to do complex

36:04 engineering calculation, it's not

36:11 the right tool for the job. And that's sort of where we are coming in and saying, okay, well, we can build the fit for purpose software when you need to do more complex stuff.

36:22 Yeah. And since, since Jeremy name dropped me, you know, on spot fire part. So it is interesting to see how

36:31 I, I, you said you're using it as Santos, but which is one of the first places that Laura die, friend of the show. Yeah, we

36:40 went down and actually we're, we spent a lot of time trying to convince people at Santos. Hey, you need, you need spot fire and we went from trying to sell them two licenses And which was a major

36:52 arm wrestling event in 2005 or so to, you know, then they went and eventually adopted it, you know, some crazy number of licenses and it was kind of, you know, full enterprise. So it's just,

37:04 it's crazy how hard it was to convince them that they needed something and now they're misapplying it and trying to make it more that do more than it probably ever should have done So anyway, long

37:15 story there. So I know we're running short of time. You know, what is the vision? Beyond, do you have a vision for just keeping Enla oil and gas? Or are you looking to take it outside of oil and

37:27 gas? I know you're also talking about coming to North America with it and that's probably why Jeremy's involved, but what is the vision beyond two years from now with Enla? Yeah, I'm glad you

37:38 asked. So like we've talked a lot about completions, but that's kind of just the starting point for us So next it's about, we've helped put the well on the ground, but there's a lot to be gained

37:54 in operating that well better through its lifetime, as well as all the facilities surrounding it. And like we've got experience building internal software in that space. And we know there's a lot

38:05 left to be desired with how that's being done. And so that's next on our development in terms of where we're moving And all this core tech that we're building to solve these problems, which are

38:18 essentially like design problems.

38:21 You have a model or a physics sort of world that represents an approximation for what might be happening in the real world. But you need an efficient way of exploring and creating solutions in

38:37 that software model. And that's really the key tech that we're building. And so if we really succeed in what we're doing, we successfully scale this out horizontally or through the vertical and

38:49 oiling gas. And then we've built it in such a way that we take it and we apply it to another another vertical. And we're pretty excited about bioprocess as the next vertical. It has like really

39:02 attractive attributes for replacing a lot of petrochemical pathways, like making plastics, food substitutes, wastewater processing, biogas, like bioethanol, there's all sorts of spaces there and

39:17 there's all the challenges in doing that in a large scale,

39:22 a lot of which we think is quite analogous to the type of software that's needed in oil and gas too.

39:31 Fantastic. Well, this was, this was tons of fun. Riley, I definitely, I think sort of like a Don Burdick type thing, Tim, because this is so early stage. I'm kind of curious what everything

39:42 looks like a year from now, because these guys are truly in their infancy as an organization and really curious to see kind of what they, what they're able to achieve and accomplish. But definitely

39:56 going to have to have an update, you know, and not too distant in the future, I think, in a year. But, you know, Tim, as much as we like our Aussies, you know, we are patriots over here.

40:06 Let's go patriots. Let's go Pat's kid. Seven in a row. Sorry. I just conflated a couple of things. Yeah, it's American football. Sorry, Riley. He can't resist it. Go Pat's. It's good fun

40:19 watching those highlights. So pretty impressive, some pretty impressive plays that go down in that stuff. Yeah, well, you know what, there's a lot of X footy players now up here, you know,

40:31 playing an NFL. Yeah. So we've got a few talented athletes down here.

40:40 Yep. Next week, folks, stay tuned for our update on Australian rules football and Jeremy's theories along with Tim's on the NFL concussions. Until next time.