What The Funk?

0:00 Tim, this is going to be a good one today because our guest is checking in from New Hampshire. I knew when I heard some replace in New Hampshire, I thought, Oh, Jeremy, you can be so excited to

0:10 be talking about it. Sister who went to Brandeis, place in New Hampshire. This is a man after my own heart already. And I just met him. Josh Adler, source water. Tim, source water. They

0:22 sponsored one of our podcasts a few weeks ago, right? What, what three weeks in a row that they sponsor a podcast was pretty cool We did a little read. We really didn't know much about source

0:31 water, but then this was right before energy tech night, by the way, had a blast. And then, you know, I sitting out there in the audience, look up and there's Josh doing the presentation on

0:40 source water and frack scape and thought, man, we've got to get him on. And, you know, this is not paid. This is just us want to talk to, talk to Josh about what they're doing, but it was a

0:52 fascinating presentation. And we're going to dig into that because there were some moments where. Everyone was just a little bit scared about how much Josh could know about what's going on. Wait a

1:03 second. Yeah, I wanna, you know, Josh, before we get into kind of all of the business and entrepreneurial happenings, let's take it back even before Yale University, where'd you grow up? What

1:15 were your interests? How'd you get to Yale? And then, you know, your career subsequent. Oh man, I grew up in the suburbs of Washington, DC

1:27 That's two and a half years ago. Oh, he's gonna grow. Yeah, the last podcast, we hit on this right away. If you live in Chevy Chase or Bethesda, yeah, he went to Georgetown Prep. I did not.

1:39 I went to the public schools, but - Nice, nice. Yeah, I went to Whitman High School in Bethesda, Maryland. There, nice area. Yeah, well, it was a good place to grow up in great public

1:51 schools and all good. I,

1:55 Yeah I know Cause I grew up in the suburbs they are pretty typical stuff and

2:01 early early interests besides lots of you know Sci Fi and Sword and sorcery books that convinced me that death my First of My First business Plan I Think I was about seven years old old and you know I

2:15 was born in seventy three so I think the energy the oil crisis of the seventy two seventy three seventy nine I think that those I had some awareness of those in my well in a kid consciousness and my

2:31 first business plan was that I was going to invent fusion power so you know infinite clean energy people that think that energy is clean or not clean those days but based on infinite energy and I was

2:48 going to use my patents on fusion power to power the world by large of Australia, create a new country there, of which I would be the ruler, and I would name it sort of loosely after myself. And

3:04 then with my revenue, I would

3:08 build a fusion powered space fleet with which I would colonize the solar system and beyond. Unfortunately, Elon Musk stole my plan, but the race is all on your little behind. I am behind. I'm

3:24 very behind I'm very confident that by the time I was 30, I would be giving some sort of speech to, you know, the assembled earthlings before me, telling them of our plan to colonize the galaxy.

3:36 And, you know, I hit 30, no one listened to my speech, and I went back to the drawing room. So it's, you know, well, you dream to say that, yeah, well, that revise a few times I think the

3:51 second curry choice was I wanted to be chief expert. Not of anything in particular, just the chief expert. But the reason I had a good reason for this, because I wanted to be the person who the

4:04 president would call immediately when aliens arrived. So the idea was, you know, when the aliens do show up, I want to be the guy on the other end of the red phone where they're like, Josh, the

4:18 aliens are here. We need you to go talk to them and figure this out. That was the plan So that one came and went to it. I mean, that one's still on the way. You know, that one could happen.

4:30 Good luck. I mean, yeah. So yeah, you know, I'm also holding up for that one.

4:35 So anyway, I, yeah, I mean, I was a high school

4:38 wrestler, a high school debater, a high school singer, all those things. And so got a kind of lucky break as a non-legacy, non-scholarship athlete, kind of no other advantage flipped into Yale

4:53 from a public school. and had good time there. Most of my activity there was acapella singing.

5:01 So yeah, kind of gave up on the staying fit while I was in college, as most of us do. And did a lot of acapella singing with a group called the alley cats, a group called the whiff and poops.

5:13 Really it was an amazing opportunity in that got to hang out with a bunch of my buddies. These were both all male groups and really traveled the country, traveled the world with our concerts paying

5:25 for the travel, which was incredible. And I was the, I was sort of elected the MC for these groups. So I was typically the guy who was coming out between the, between the songs and telling the

5:37 jokes and telling the stories and trying to get people to laugh with kind of funny yet tasteful original humor. So that's probably one of the better, better preparation. I think, you know, just

5:51 sitting here listening to you, You've got the voice. It's kind of a grave voice. Being an MC or doing your own podcast for that matter. Yeah, like I feel like I've heard you. Maybe I've listened

5:59 to one of your presentations, but you seem to do this a decent amount. You got the nice microphone over there. Like clearly you're, do you have a podcast or do you just do some podcasts? No, but

6:10 it's funny you say that because in high school, I was not, you know, in the superlatives, I was not elected most likely to succeed, but I was elected most likely to be a DJ.

6:22 Which is, you know, almost the same thing.

6:25 So, basically, I did the morning announcements in my high school every year. So did I, so did I. In 40 years, you did it, really? Oh, pretty much, yeah, 'cause I walked in the year, I was

6:39 just like, I want to do this, and I walked into the principal's office, and I was like, what do the guy need to do around here to do the morning announcement? They're like, well, you're it.

6:47 You're hired. Literally, this

6:50 is the same story as me It's the same story as me. I Think I was a freshman and there were a couple of people that did the announcements and then it just disappeared like a couple of days they did

6:59 the announcers and I walked into the principal's office and I'm like hey can I do the announcements and they're like sure so did it a little bit sophomore year then for whatever reason it died down

7:09 senior year they're like okay you can come back and do this I was class president wherever and I decided to take some liberties with it and the vice principal pulled me over like a militant like

7:20 military guy explained he's like a little more C N n a little less sports center and I'd take take heed to that and he kicked me off for good yeah they

7:35 they can keep it on and I was depth and appropriate but by my stunts your people were so used to hearing me every morning that even when I didn't show up they still thought I had and so he was I was

7:49 at that point I was kind of you know training some like a group of people take it over as I was going to be heading out until a lot of my senior year, I wasn't, I wasn't the best on attendance,

8:01 especially on early morning arrivals. And just people didn't really notice because I'd show up, you know, I'd show for second period or whatever, and be like, yeah, I was doing the announcements,

8:09 you know, and they're like, Oh,

8:13 it runs really late.

8:16 So I'm looking at your profile here. I see, you know,

8:21 you studied economics and besides acapella singing economics and Chinese studies. That's cool. That's kind of cool. Yeah. Well, I mean, let's not get overly ambitious here. I mean, I was just

8:36 doing acapella singing. However, I graduated with a degree in economics. Somehow the Chinese actually is kind of an interesting story in itself, because when I was When I was in middle school, so

8:51 good. This is like, hmm. mid 1980s, I am somewhere I heard that a billion people lived in China. And I came home one day, this is the kind of way that my late mother told the story, but

9:05 basically I came home one day and said, Mom, one billion people live in China, yes Joshua? That's one quarter of the world's population, yes Joshua? I think I better learn Chinese. So I went to

9:22 a night school,

9:24 I signed a Brown night school, there was all adults who worked for, there was like a government language program for like professional studies, you know, and I started going to night school once

9:35 and twice a week in middle school to learn Chinese, just basically off of that. And in fact, the textbooks for Chinese came from Yale, and it turns out that Yale has this really long history of a

9:48 relationship with China that goes back to like the 1800s. And so, that actually influenced me a mark to want to go to yale and I thought if I Go there I'm going to study Chinese will turns out it's

9:59 a lot harder in college when you're doing Acapella and it's hard to wake up to the Thirty am classes but I did do it for a few years do not ask me any questions in Chinese you know if we were both

10:11 dropped by Parachute in Beijing I might find a bathroom faster than you but other than that we'd probably be equally lost so let me let me not overstate my incompetence less than one call me out

10:26 I disliked the fact that a junior high you're going to go take Chinese Brook for fun a class for fun I was trying to figure out how to you know spend a couple of hours on the driving range is kind of

10:39 things around I wasn't going to be doing anything like that and that's why you have CEO after your name and I Don't I was out there playing Tetherball by myself. Like, anyways, uh, so this is,

10:50 this is another thing we haven't really thought of.

10:54 Oh, I'm sure you're always the last picked for any sports game. And I think I was probably only going to play Tetherball by myself. That's funny. That's funny. Um, so, so I'm, I'm curious then.

11:05 So, so, you know, you finish up school, right? You kind of get out in the world and take sort of an entrepreneurial route with a, clearly right now, a focus on oil and gas. How is everything

11:17 in your career sort of led up to source water and, and whatever you guys are doing today, give some insight into that. Yeah. I think, I think the, the, the led up to my career is based on the

11:28 principle of any time something started going, well, I got to do something different and harder. Um, the, uh, uh, I actually, you know, my, my, my start in entrepreneurship was in high

11:39 school. I think the first business, first of all, I've never worked for a that I didn't start with exception of two years where I worked at the U S Treasury in Maya around when I was thirty miles

11:51 and we won't get to that but when I was in in Highschool my First business I ever started was a summer debate camp I mentioned I did debate in high school and a friend and I who were two of the top

12:02 debaters in the region we figured out that we could just kind of put out brochures and get other kids parents to pay us to tell war stories for a few weeks and get paid for and rented and like a

12:12 rented hotel room like a conference room but later in Highschool I with a friend I started a company that was originally called Scholastic Matchmakers which turned into arguably the first online

12:26 matchmaking company and this was in like nineteen eighty nine ninety ninety one into the early nineties and so I ran bad and some related stuff all through college so when I said I only dot com

12:37 coaches are really true I was busy running my online business during the day from My Dorm room that had three phone lines coming in And a lot of FedEx truck deliveries come to go. And I had a pager,

12:48 which in those days, generally not one thing in business. So I

12:55 was using it for something else. And then by night, and on weekends, I was doing the acapella. So there was a bit of a sacrifice on classes there. But after, while I was doing that through

13:09 another whole story, I got connected to a venture capitalist who was in my hometown of Bethesda. And I started working for him during the summers. And he, to a small degree, put a little bit of

13:22 money up, essentially, my 19-year-old personal guarantee into that business. And while there, I got introduced to a guy who was the founding CEO of a medical device company, at which point it was

13:36 just him and a little bit of money from this venture capitalist That guy recruited me to basically be his lieutenant. starting that company up. And so at the end of college, I sold what was, again,

13:49 arguably the first online matchmaking company in 1996 to a French company that wanted to own Amourcom because by then we were Amourcom like French Love. So it's like owning lovecom in France. That

14:02 site became an online matchmaking site in Europe. And I helped start this medical device company that took me to Dallas. You know, I haven't even typed it in a long time and I'm a little afraid to

14:14 because you never know what kind of photos you're going to pop up. But there was a funny moment. Gosh, you must come a year ago.

14:20 About 10 years ago, there was a - one of those E Hollywood specials and my wife was watching it because you watched a lot of E Hollywood specials, not because I was, god forbid. And it was like

14:34 the Heidi Fleiss - and I know, I mean, you guys may not remember this. But remember Heidi Fleiss? She was like the Hollywood madam And this is a long time ago, man. and so there is scandal cause

14:46 it was like I didn't want to say names don't remember which ones which are basically like a bunch of famous Hollywood actors were hiring prostitutes from this Hollywood Madam and there was this whole

14:55 exposed day and so there was this the Hollywood Special on it a helmet during the Hollywood Special completely inexplicably there are a whole bunch of

15:06 well endowed Young ladies wearing a more dot com T shirts which I had nothing to do in this and I don't know how this came about but it was the strangest thing and so I dunno if it was a promotion for

15:19 the this European matchmaking site but it was just like such an odd come around on that but anyway so I got out of online matchmaking ninety ninety six a little before the Internet was a big deal and

15:31 I helped start a medical device company in Dallas which because the company moved to Dallas early on and was in Colorado in the Dallas on which took me to Texas for the first time at least living in

15:42 Texas first time The first time I was really in Texas was on one of those acapella tours where I walked out to MC in the Fort Worth Petroleum Club, which I've since been by, you know, 20 times in

15:54 the last 10 years because I'm there all the time. And like, that's the place. And I came out and we had just flown into DFW Airport. And I came out in the fourth petroleum club and I was like,

16:05 well, we sure are glad to be here in Dallas. And the booze.

16:15 I mean, the airport's called Dallas Fort Worth. I did not know that those were two different places A and B that they would really take offense.

16:23 So I had to dig my way in that one. Well, I think, I think our concert right after that was in Minneapolis. And that time, you know, the airport, there was like Minneapolis, St. Paul. And I

16:31 remember like, I was asking the taxi driver, I was like, so tell me straight. Is it Minneapolis or is it St. Paul? I just want to be real quick because I've made that mistake somewhere else That

16:40 was awesome.

16:42 but anyway so a move to move to Dallas in my Twenties and I have good time Arizona of a single guy in my twenties in Dallas Kinda the late late nineties and

16:54 that medical device company was asked on whole lot sorry but the you know five six years of that get into regulate industry it wasn't as much fun as doing internet and a little bit of poor time and

17:05 getting out of the Internet ninety six when I was that half owner of a company with you know half million users and fifty states not really going to bail and die so we got to two thousand and one the

17:19 medical device company which we developed a lot of cool technology for miniature wireless cardio respiratory monitors and then several folks chronic disease had a lot of patterns got it through the

17:29 FDA process the EU approval sign a bunch of licensing deals but no revenue yet and we hit the combination of the Dot Com bust and September eleventh and for those who who weren't or alive or have

17:44 memories of those days you couldn't raise private capital for anything at the end of two thousand and one until recently we weren't a dot com there was just no way we were getting more venture capital

17:54 and we we ran out of money we closed up shop and so I was unemployed in Dallas the end of two thousand and one now you know where my Bathrobe I the nice House by White Rock Lake Ah not like a big

18:06 house but it was nice cause it was like a water view in Dallas when does that happen well I think for singled out as enough to show off at any of those exactly a waterview Dallas what and that I was

18:22 you know kind of making omelets for myself and working out a lot and really didn't know what else into my Life and I got a lucky break and got a call from the folks who worked for President George W

18:34 bush who I'd applied for a job with like you know a year before didn't hear a thing and then all of a sudden got called in sick for some interviews and was offered the position of chief speech writer

18:49 for President Bush's Treasury Secretary which was Paul O'Neil at the time and they were like well you know when you think you can come up here and I was like tomorrow so moved

19:04 industry my alright I'm pretty busy around here I'm pretty busy with you tomorrow so I got other I I got other people I'm a demand a demand which was so I got myself up there as quick as occurred

19:19 bought some suits and started working for the Treasury Secretary for President Bush did that for two years and while I was there another friend and I another friend of the treasury department who

19:32 worked for President Bush we were kind of dabbling in DC real estate together looking to buy hazard for ourselves and one thing led to another and we started doing these kind of neighborhood it the

19:43 deals on the side we we hit a couple of home runs just kind of at lunchtime and at some point I was

19:51 just like what I the room were didn't you know we're getting too lucky here you know it said the economist in me says there's no joke about economists to commerce are walking down the street one would

20:02 seize one hundred dollar bill sitting on the street and says hey you're going to pick that up the other one says no because if there was really one hundred dollar bill there's someone else would have

20:09 already picked it up and that's a joke about the strong markets are efficient markets hypothesis which is there's never there's never arbitrage and efficient market but it turns out that in real

20:21 estate or at least in D C real estate at that time there was a lot of arbitrage available to you know to to a dumb guys who didn't know anything but who were smarter than the other even dumber people

20:33 trying it and so we did a lot of deals we went full time on it recreate a real estate development company each time we kind of went twice as big as the last one we really didn't have investors for

20:44 almost any of our hundred plus deals it was just us kind of keeping our little chips on the table and continuing to spend as the pile got bigger and and a lot smaller when we hit the financial crisis

20:55 and then a lot a lot bigger when we came out of the financial crisis and at that point to around two thousand eleven two thousand and twelve my partner was like hey you know what I'm getting out of

21:05 the train Walton the station I don't want to go on that loop de loop again so I've done what I feel like I need to do I'm going to travel the world have a good time and distress and I you know at

21:16 urban really kind of urban cowboy real estate development is about as stressful a business he can be and that doesn't involve with with all respect to other men or women or military that doesn't

21:29 involve actual people shooting real bullets at you so that way more stressful way more stressful no question but you know when you've got personal guarantees on tens of millions of dollars allowance

21:42 you've Got neighbors and politicians and you know protesters and tenants and lenders and you know everybody's fighting everybody all the time and as I as I used to like to say you know why we're we

21:58 always always getting in a fight over everything why every time does it end up like this and my answer was

22:06 men have been fighting over land since the beginning of time and now we do it with papers instead of with swords and spears which is good for us that healthier Revolution though it's a so at that

22:21 point I thought you know maybe this is a chance for me to reevaluate my career too we've been this for ten years it's been a great success but we often my friends my friend who I started the company

22:33 with his travel the world Maybe I'll take a break do So I got into this program at MIT called Sloan Fellows I got there I got into this subprogram they're called energy ventures which I did not know

22:46 nothing about at least not since my five year old fusion power days and I just thought hey this sounds cool and so we started doing it on the first lectures regard was about the shale revolution and

22:59 it was aiming to cover everything that cover solar and wind and nuclear and whatnot but it just happens when the first bonds with the shale Revolution and I looked at this this is two thousand and

23:07 twelve I looked at this growth curve in unconventional gas from two thousand and five to two thousand and twelve which at that time was basically all around us and that it was like you know twenty

23:19 acts in seven years I was like wait what

23:23 that's that's happening in my country right now and I didn't know about it there and duh this is coming off the you know that the great recession to no seven two thousand and ten when energy was like

23:35 the one strong aspect of the entire US economy and i was like I did not know about that and that curve looks like PCS in the eighties the Internet in the nineties real estate in the two thousands I'm

23:51 not letting this one get past me so I just started really digging into it and it seemed to me that you know what is it that is new about this unconventional energy thing that is part of the

24:01 conventional cause that's where the opportunity is going to be as an entrepreneur and it seemed to me that really the new thing was the water that you know for the first time water is the biggest

24:10 thing by far in or out of the energy supply chain that was never true before where are the I'm not going to invent some new membrane I'm not I don't have the capital to build some you know pipeline

24:23 company by them I can do the data so where's the data in the market around water as a commodity there isn't one alright I can do that well here we are like nine years later and I'm still trying with

24:39 some success but we've also had it's been a long journey You know I know a lot about a lot of stuff that I probably should know about and nobody else knows about and you know I love to tell the story

24:48 so the candidate that kind of doubt is going Yeah so Jeremy I wanted to we he did this demonstration or at well I guess with a demonstration of what they were doing and energy tech night it was it was

25:01 absolutely fascinating so I you know Ye I'm amazed at what data is available but he can get up there and tell you hey there's a bunch of people based on their cell phone usage or based on their cell

25:15 phones just moving around on a pad that must mean there's a lot of drilling going on or there's a frat going on and so then they they're using the satellite images and the cell phone data bases say

25:26 hey there's a there's a FRAC getting ready to happen over here so you basically couple of weeks early all your subscribers be able to know hey there's a there's a FRAC job getting ready to happen on

25:36 this site or this site that sites they can It was just as fascinating to see the little red dots moving around of where all these guys were were cell phones that's really that's neat at the Tim I

25:47 think you were telling me about that afterwards with their with with somewhat of a level of excitement and I'm curious who who are you selling this to are you selling it to services companies are you

25:60 selling it to operators like both what is the target market for you Yeah it's it's definitely both and it's essentially how this came about because the original idea for source water was to create an

26:13 online marketplace for water particularly water recycling Ghana like air BNB or expedia you know where I find the best deal for the water I need or for the disposal I need or for the trucks I need and

26:25 where that led us was in overtime we figured out okay people who have FRAC ponds on the property in West Texas tend to be really excited to get help selling their water drawn gas companies and so how

26:38 do we find all this people and it turns out that there's just no in Texas there's just really no records of rap ons it's if if you want to dig a ditch on your land would answer plastic and put it

26:49 you'll fill the groundwater from your property that you're gog and read his debts so Damn No Camera Damn right and so you know but from a regulatory or business standpoint no one knows where these are

27:01 and it's a pretty important step in supply chain scant have a FRAC without upon full of water first and so we were trying to figure out how do we find all these and when we discovered that there are

27:10 just no records of any kind that we can use to locate them we had a few hits and misses and then we figured out you know what maybe we can see squares of water in the desert from space and so we

27:23 started using satellite imagery there's like twenty seventeen and nobody had done this before and then we realized you know there's a lot of other interesting things you can see happening on the

27:32 ground in the oil field from space that either never shows up in regulatory data like France Palms like well pads like lease roads or that shows up with such a long delay it's just not that useful by

27:46 the time you get it like spuds completion reports or production data and so how can we use more of this remote sensing technology like satellites to see this stuff before the kind of conventional

28:01 energy regulatory intelligence type companies do it or maybe see things that they can't see at all and so that took us down this road of building these machine learning systems and we've gotten

28:10 thirteen patents granted so far and we've got more than ten pending for using this combination of satellite imagery machine learning artificial intelligence regulatory data and and now increasingly

28:25 GPS location data from cell phones to to get a near real time understanding of energy supply chain activity basically as it happens to see stuff that you can't see Well, you know, in, in the permit

28:42 filings or the spud reports that you get six months or nine months or 12 months after the thing already happened. So yeah. But you can see, so basically, you can see water trucks leaving a pad

28:57 with, I guess, you know, already produced frack water and taking it back to wherever it's going to go recycling or to the solar disposal place, but you can also track where the trucks going from

29:08 these frack ponds, where they're running from here to, you know, some pad that we know happens to be owned by Oxy, and so we know that they're getting a lot of water staged for a frack job. Yeah,

29:22 that's right. And the same thing with sand or the crude oil, anything that moves in a truck. Now, a lot of water doesn't move in trucks, by the way, so it actually works better for sand and

29:31 which all goes in trucks or certain other kinds of supplies that go in trucks. If it's in a We usually know where the pipelines are but we don't know what's you know how much is is is flowing through

29:42 them

29:44 but yes and there's a there's it requires combining all these different methods to he put them together in this holistic way to really get those results so so what I mean is first you've got to know

29:58 where a well pad is now well pads don't show up anywhere in any kind of regulatory data so how do you know where the well -padded where we look in the satellite imagery and we've built these systems

30:08 that are trained to know what a well pad looks like for an oil aswell and how that might be different from a home building site or a warehouse or media effect on pad or something else it's got a road

30:22 construction something else it might look like a well -padded nine out of ten times we're right it's not always right but it's like nine out of ten times is pretty good so you have to know where the

30:31 well pad is first and then we're able to look for things that happen inside the perimeter of that pad so one is we can use a type of satellite imagery called synthetic Aperture Radar which is good for

30:46 certain things it it basically senses altitude and it bounces off of metal so you're able to see that there's equipment on the pad and SAR also it doesn't get blocked by clouds unlike optical imagery

30:60 so we can see there's heavy equipment which might be a rig or it might be a FRAC spread on the pad even if there's clouds but we only can do that because we know where the pad is because the other

31:10 kind of satellite imagery that drew the Printer path then revel attract that same location for when the people show up there because there's data available commercially an anonymous cell phone

31:22 locations now it's generally lagged a few days after the persons in that location don't give it to you in real time they take the phone number off they take the name off so you don't know who it is

31:32 but you know that there's someone there and so by looking for Parties basically on well pads where there's a drilling permit and equipment like a bunch of people getting together on a well path in

31:44 West Texas and there's nothing else around except a permit and some equipment what kind of parties that can probably not a real fun party but it's either a party or a frat party and if there was

31:53 already a red party then it can only be a frat party so can now we know it's a frat party and that turns out to be really the only way to track FRAC crews well there's another level to that which is

32:05 you can look at the big party the Frack Roe but there's other patterns that happened into supply chain so we can look at devices that visit a disposal well location and we because of source water

32:18 that's what we do we've got all the disposal locations mapped already and so we know if somebody's visiting a lot of disposal well locations they have got to be a disposal truck driver right they

32:27 Gotta be a water truck driver so now we can look at where they go before and after those visits and we can see which well pads are producing that water who which disposes that doing business with how

32:38 much water is being picked up there how much flow back is it what else is being picked up their crew trucks going between terminals we can see that too and are there sand trucks say you know we know

32:48 where all this and we know we're at least most of the same minds our media all of EM and so we know have somebody starts driving back and forth between a sand mine and a previously unidentified

32:59 location Ah that's a FRAC side getting ready before there's even a FRAC crew there so maybe we know there's a dock there because there had been a rig maybe we see there's a FRAC pond nearby that

33:12 wasn't there before now is either starting to accumulate sand a few days before OK we can be pretty Darn sure that that company is getting ready to Frack we might even have a sense of what kind of

33:24 racket is going to be and and maybe what the future production is going to be based on the intensity of the water in the sand they're accumulating there so there's a lot that we can see it again

33:34 either never shows up in regulatory data at all or that shows up six or nine months later we're able to see it you know within a couple of days would happen so it you know German are both sales guys

33:45 now we don't sell to pads and rigs and things like that though I guess this would be invaluable if you're selling pipe or tools or you know something I got to know hey they're building up on this for

33:59 a practice if I'm I need to go out and visit the company man at Oxy four and I know that these frack sites are being built up is getting ready to start and that that's very valuable information to

34:09 know that being in proper weeks are going to have a frack at her I mean it's also competitive intelligence like you're you're keeping an eye on you're keeping tabs on what these guys are going to do

34:19 and you know what they're Gonna do based on the the you know the Learnings You've made to this point you know it's really it's really Awesome actually I Mean I would think even from an investor

34:29 standpoint if somebody's Bullish on energy stocks and What's the monitor activity what what's happening in this area you know you can start to hone in on that it sounds like meteor apron even another

34:42 angle jeremy you and I should start a little food truck action

34:48 we know is going to happen I will just drive and park it on that pad sells burgers out here I'll see you and the Pecos Yeah you read the truck oh Yeah don't worry I'm Coming I'm going to be Yeah it's

35:03 a yeah it's interesting I mean when you think about the evolution the industry over the last ten twelve years everything used to be about tracking the rig right and she had companies that got into

35:12 just retracting it used to be like six or ten US companies now there's like one but you know it used to be that when you drilled a well that was the main event right and then you got the the oil gas

35:23 coming out that's not true anymore right I mean the the energy industry is not about the drilling it's about the fracking and so when you drill the wells I don't really get anything except a drilled

35:33 but uncompleted well and now something like two thirds of the spending in the industry upstream is on the completion it's not on the spot is not on the drilling and no one hundred percent of the water

35:46 usage disposal usage the sand usage a lot of chemicals is all about the completion not the drilling so it's it's just it's a change that's happened kind of gradually over the last ten years because

35:56 something like ninety six per cent of new wells are now horizontal wells and so it's completions are the new spud right as far as you've got track the Frack ruse to know anything that's happening in

36:08 the industry rather than tracking the recruits he didn't attract the rigs because he knew where the ducks are but that's really it that just tells you where the frack is Gonna be and so all of the

36:19 applications are talking about whether it's one of your services no one okay where's the spending happening who's getting ready to spend money who's going to need our stuff what about the the postback

36:27 deals like the well clean -outs and the artificial lift and all that If you wanna be ahead of that, you have to know where the frack is either about to be 'cause that's where the tucks are and where

36:36 the pond is showing up and the sand and the crew. Or you need to know where the frack just happened without waiting six months for the frack focus or the railroad commission report to come out, in

36:44 which case you're already too late. If you're an operator, a lot of the bad for the operators, one of the big things is getting ahead of frack hits because if another operator on Offset Lease is

36:56 getting ready to frack and you don't know about it and you don't prepare your wells, you can, I mean, you can kill or water out a 10 million dollar well in a minute. And so, even though they talk

37:09 to each other in the Offset Leases, it's really easy to drop a ball on something like that or overlook something and it's a small thing to help prevent it. If you get two weeks to plan for that

37:18 intervention as opposed to the, hey, we're gonna frack tomorrow, you get a little bit more time to plan and pressure up your well, so whatever you need to do, Yeah all that and it's also helps

37:32 them stay ahead of either they can save a lot on the mobilization costs if they can grab a crew that happens to be near their DoCs right now before that Krueger goes back to the yard and has to add a

37:43 couple hundred thousand dollars more to come back out the same place so you can basically play the spot market an oilfield services on the operator side and save a lot of money when you've got that

37:53 real time information and there's a bunch of other benefits too I mean if you know that there's Gonna be competition for water or sand where you're planning FRAC and turns out you've got a neighbor

38:02 who's got the same thing coming up you might get ahead of that to avoid your non productive time when you've got a crew sitting around banana for water sand actually get started because everybody

38:11 started pumping at the same time and up on the investor side Jeremy's you're pointing out I mean it's a way to basically get head of well inventories and cycle times and market shares in advance of

38:23 the earnings calls road and maybe with more accuracy than the management team even has an earnings call because they don't know, by the time things filter up to that level, they don't necessarily

38:34 have the best information themselves if it's a big operation. For sure. No, this is, this is really fun stuff. See, Tim, I love when people come on who have a product, because I immediately

38:44 hear them start talking, I'm like, excuse me, what I would do with your product, sir, is this be to hear it? But really, I think, I think what you're doing is, it's just the tip of the

38:54 iceberg, right? Like, I think that there's going to be other things that the solution that you're bringing could do, maybe even in conjunction with other things, like, like, you know, people

39:03 showing up and being able to prove that they're certified with X and that they're not that they don't have COVID and and whatever it may be coming on site. What about the bidding and dispatching,

39:15 right? Like you should be ahead of the curve with that data conceivably, you could say, okay, you know what, we're seeing these trucks move in here, we're going to need a whole bunch of water or

39:24 something this business is about to churn. So It really, like, it's starting. A supply chain that gives more insight and more predictability into the process that they have today and I'm excited

39:38 to see what you do with it because I'm sure you have ideas of what V three four five whatever you're on now versus what it could be down the road but that the starting point is is really cool like

39:50 it's really sound and it adds value so Yeah I'm I'm Curious who are the personas who who buys it within a company is it like a few guys at an I T executive or CEO like who buys the stuff Yeah that's a

40:04 really good question because on the IOS side it's pretty straightforward it's usually a VP of business development or a head of sales because it's really about le gem to get ahead of the competition

40:16 on where there's an opportunity we should focus on I especially like with der worker which the product of detects the well pads before the drilling permits get filed so I mean that's where we call it

40:27 your work alert but it's using the satellite imagery to see the well pads which about one third of the time actually get built before a permit shows up. Now, sometimes that's only a few days before.

40:36 It just kind of depends on where the construction crews are, but it helps people get ahead of where the drilling is going, you know, before the permits, obviously before the rigs. And it also

40:46 helps them focus on the real opportunities and not the kind of false flags because a lot of drilling permits either never get drilled or just don't get drilled for a long time, especially New Mexico,

40:58 by the way, only about half of drilling permits in New Mexico actually end up getting drilled. In Texas, it's more like 80. But still, you don't have to waste your time on a permit that's not

41:07 gonna get drilled 'cause there's no pad there yet. And a pad costs about 1, 000 times more to build than a drilling permit costs. And so you know when the company builds the pad that they're

41:18 actually serious about moving forward. Whereas when there's just a permit, it might not be that serious, right? They just kind of threw it in for whatever reason So basically on the OFS side,

41:29 it's You know it's support for making sales is the same reason why people buy in a permit and rig tracking stuff it just it gives them an edge on that plus we also track the rigs in the permits rights

41:39 there's no not losing anything you're just getting better data then you got lore and so that one's pretty straightforward and you know most of our sales especially the quick ones or really anybody

41:49 doing anything in OH F ASS especially if it's water related then our broadening that cause that's an easy one red that's kind of a no -brainer to a point but those companies tend to have except for a

41:58 few big ones tend to not have a lot of budget the much bigger contracts but they're a lot more complicated or with the big operators and dare it's a different man as a whole I mean that's like a whole

42:11 show in itself because it is located Yeah I'm bummed that I've got a I've got a jump here because tennis is one of those that could easily go for for an hour I mean there's we didn't even talk about

42:22 what you're doing this weekend New hampshire going to head over to Portsmouth I really felt completely derailed as soon as we got out of the hamster, well, we're gonna be on New Hampshire talk the

42:31 whole time. Josh is an interesting guy in this product. We love cool tech, right? So Tim was all geeked up when he's like, Man, you gotta see this stuff, it's really cool. But you clearly did

42:41 a great job of breaking down what certainly involves a lot of technology, effort, and concepts to now a super functional solution. So I do wanna learn more. Where can people find more about you,

42:54 your company? Where do people get in touch with you? Yeah, thanks. Well, sourcewatercom, just like it sounds. And I'm Josh at sourcewatercom.

43:06 You know, my LinkedIn page or the company's LinkedIn page. We got some of the videos and things. Actually, the energy tech night video that you guys watched, that came out really, really well.

43:15 I'm very happy with that. So I mean, that's a great, it's like 15 minutes. That's a great introduction. And we've got that on LinkedIn and probably on our website. So that would be Energy Tech

43:22 Night brought to you by Digital Wildcatters? That was safe to walk out of the spring. Exactly. thank you everyone for tuning in to tripping over the barrel a digital wildcatters podcast there we go

43:32 Yeah wow now that they're growing up we have to be all serious so intellect that Josh My Man Thank you so much it you know on a personal note great great to meet you but obviously sister Brandeis

43:45 living in New Hampshire you and I need to catch up over a beer some time and it sounds great