What The Funk?

0:01 What's up, Funkers? Can I say that now, right? What's up, Funkers? What the fuck? Second episode, second recording of What the Funk and a special one for sure, especially for me. I have a

0:14 couple of new friends right here, but one of them looks strangely like an old friend that we had on here. We got Matt Loser who came on one of the tribute episodes for his big brother, Tim,

0:26 earlier this summer to help kind of share some of his memories of his incredible older brother and my dear friend, Tim. And Matt has agreed graciously to be one of our rotating guest co-hosts. So

0:40 some synergy with tripping over the barrel and a lot of fun and insight. And of course, just like Tim, Matt is involved in the energy and energy technology industry. So a lot of fun stuff to talk

0:52 about there And our guest today is Mr. Bear Givhan.

0:60 Give Anne close enough - Give Anne, okay, we'll make the age silent. But we have some interesting personalities on this one. I think both of you guys are involved in whatever you wanna call it.

1:11 ESG, sustainability, emissions capture. I think we're gonna dive deep into that. But I guess just to start off with, Bear, you're the guest of honor today. Why don't you give us a little bit of

1:24 your background? We'll talk about Earth view and how you got there, but I really wanna understand, like, Dallas kid, right? And then how did you get into flying planes? How'd you end up in

1:34 Colorado? Kind of give us the full dose of the big bear - Yeah, the full pole as we like to say, in aviation.

1:44 Yes, so yeah, Jeremy, Matt, thanks a ton for having me on here. I really appreciate the opportunity to talk a little bit about myself. And I guess we'll get to some stuff about Earth view

1:56 But yeah, you know, born Dallas and always wanted to kind of move to the mountains. So did that in 2011. I should start off in Colorado living in Telluride working on a ski lifts for about two

2:10 years. Yeah, you did. That was quite fun. Decided that being a lifelong ski bomb maybe wasn't the optimal career path. At least of my parents eyes. I don't know what else I was going to be on.

2:25 So I always have a blast. But decided to head to Boulder to get my degree in geology. So did that. It's been a lot of time looking at rocks and of course geology is a big part of oil and gas

2:41 because you got to have someone to find the oil. So I had kind of intended on going into trying to be a geologist for some of these larger oil and gas companies. And I realized, you know, I needed

2:55 a master's degree or a PhD and I was sick of school and wanted to get out and get out in the world and start doing stuff. So next up plan and you know, kind of how I got through into aviation is

3:06 just really, you know, lifelong passion. I mean, I've got aviation on both my mom and dad's side. I got uncles and cousins, their pilots.

3:17 And it's really just something that I've been doing since I was a kid You know, I was kind of a huge nerd and flew RC airplane to build up. So flying has always been a passion. And you know, I was

3:28 working one summer in Boulder at the St. Julian Ballet in cars. Well, they would have been. That's where I've seen you before. Yeah, really? That's what I'm just kidding. That was a while ago.

3:41 So you know, worked one summer there and made enough money to start getting my private pilot. And you know, never looked back It was just kind of immediate, you know kind of connection with Hey,

3:52 I love. fly to cool blend of science and technology and really an art form too, to do all that, just really teaches you how to make decisions and think about things in a really quick time manner.

4:06 You gotta make decisions pretty quickly. I wish it kind of helps a lot in business, right? I mean, you gotta make decisions. I feel like half my job is just making decisions all day long. One of

4:17 those decisions are right or wrong. It's kind of irrelevant. This decision has to be made And you go with the flow there. And if it's the wrong decision, you work your way out, which is similar

4:28 in the fly. So that's kind of how I got into flying. And that's somewhat led me to getting into Earth view -

4:37 So Matt, this is when you're supposed to chime in and say that you're an Air Force pilot, right - Well, I was going to ask what you fly. And then we're just gonna see where that went Yeah so, all

4:50 my time is in, you know, I would. some stuff around Air Force bases and they would always refer to us as light sibils which was kind of maskulating.

5:01 You know really small single prop airplane or what I've got most of my time in so a lot of time in bananas and a lot of time in moonies. Okay, nice. Go ahead Matt. I've got nothing. I don't know

5:13 what that means

5:16 So tell me one propeller. Yeah,

5:22 and your time at Colorado you got up pretty fast. That looks like if your LinkedIn profile is correct you got out in four years. Is that right? It is. By some miracle I did manage to get out of

5:34 there in four years. You know I did do a little bit of time in community college before transferring to CU but yeah it was about four years when I got there in 2014 and was done by 2018

5:46 roughly. Okay and then why what made you choose Colorado? Is it just proximity to where you were being a ski long - Yeah, proximity and, you know, living in Telluride really kind of inspired me

6:02 to want to study the earth, right? So I've been, I've been, I've been doing a drive from Telluride, which is just really cool. Mountain Town, El Timo, out of Utah, which was just a complete

6:12 change. And I was really curious, it's like, why? Why is that? Why did that happen? So it kind of drew me to geology and, you know, University of Colorado is one of the best schools in the

6:22 world for that And it also just happened to be the state house living in and didn't want to leave. So I'm kind of worked out - So just throw in an application and get accepted, no problem - Yeah,

6:33 you know, there's a few hooks there. I had to explain my ski bumness, but they seem to do that as a positive as opposed to a negative. So I don't think Colorado has the lowest. I think they have

6:42 a

6:45 pretty high acceptance rate - Yeah, well, you know. they probably figured, well, he's already got that out of a system. So unlike everybody else that comes here and desires to be a ski bum and

6:56 take six years to go to school, maybe he's already moved past that. He's a little bit older. I think we'll be good with it. So to bring it back to me because this is my podcast, right? So it's

7:07 always about me. No, but so when I decided to move to Colorado, I'm New Hampshire kid, went to college in Boston I think at the time I was living just outside of Washington, DC, I knew I wanted

7:20 to do something different. And Colorado was certainly that different, but I moved out here with two other guys. One of them wanted to move to Steamboat Springs and be a lifty. The other one wanted

7:31 to move to Denver, but I was kind of at the point where I wanted to start my career a little bit. And Boulder was sort of the best option for all of those things. I still live in Boulder County. I

7:41 love Boulder. It's a great town Bear, I think your office is in Longmont, so you didn't stray too far from out here and you live in Denver. But I wanna go back to the flying, right? So

7:53 you were very curious about the terrain, obviously.

7:58 You had the geology background. And then not only were you flying planes as a, right out of school and having your pilot license after your time at the St. Julian, but then you actually got into

8:10 flying planes kind of all over the lower 48. Well, even I guess I would say all over North America and seeking out methane emissions, right? So how did you end up sort of in that space? Not I

8:24 think we'll lead us a little bit to what you're doing at Earth view - Yeah, so, you know, kind of how I got that initial job was just I was doing my training at the Boulder Airport and met the kind

8:38 of the CEO and president of the Fairmont Flu Forefall Scientific Aviation and they were based out of Boulder. I got to know him for about a year before I graduated. And he offered me a job, you

8:50 know, can basically under the condition that I get my commercial and instrument rating and then finished my degree. So let's just, I think my spring semester, I was in 22 hours of class plus

9:02 commercial and instrument training. So it was a busy last semester there, but it was all worth it, right? 'Cause literally my first job as a commercial pilot was up in Yellowknife, Canada, which

9:14 is way up there. I mean, when I grew up, I had to become a map to figure out where it was. It was really flying research missions for NASA. So I wasn't the actual piloting command on that

9:27 particular mission, but I did do a lot of the flying. We were up there looking for method emissions as they relate to permafrost minerals. So they had us up, ripping around the North Slope for six

9:42 weeks at a time, trying to get us an understanding how much methane. is being admitted over this huge massive area, and how that changes over time. So we started out in April and finished the last

9:56 one in November. It was a really, really cool experience. And then from there, yeah, just really got to fly those research planes in Canada.

10:08 You know, I can't say enough about how awesome that experience was. I mean, fly up in Fort Murray, which is where Canada has their tar sands up there, which is always described as based on fly

10:21 over Mordor.

10:25 There's there out fans of lot a. That's kind of what it felt like. And then just seeing, going down to the lower 48 and seeing OK, power landfill emissions, power these things, creating so much

10:36 methane, feed lots. I mean, really got the whole gauntlet of sources that could produce methane. I probably flown some circles over it, including getting into some offshore stuff down. to Mexico,

10:48 which in a single engine airplane gets pretty spooky. You know, you really paint into the satellite engine. Let me tell you, when you're a couple hundred miles off shore. Oh yeah. Well, even if

10:59 you're in the middle of nowhere in like Yellowknife, that seems like you got to be aware too. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, honestly, after I left that job, I did, I had another job flying for a

11:10 family out of, based out of Wyoming. And the scariest part was fly out, do Phoenix up to Watford City, what felt like twice a week. And I had to fly over the Rockies, which was always the least,

11:22 you know, the water or somewhere to put it down, but there's nowhere to go in the mountains. Yeah, scary shit. I get scary flying over, flying out of Denver, taking off to the west, freaks me

11:35 out every time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So Matt, what's your connection to flying? I was just going to

11:45 ask.

11:48 We're getting into quite a bit of renewable natural gas with dairy farms and collecting methane and putting it back into the pipeline.

11:60 Have you had any experience flying over any dairy farms, et cetera, looking at dairy emissions - Yes, I have, I believe we did all that in California. We looked at pretty much every dairy farm

12:16 from what Humboldt County up in the north down to, I remember doing one off over in the Salton Sea, which was another area I had to look up to figure out where the heck I was going - I don't even

12:28 know that - Yeah, a lot of experience around agriculture. And I remember those being some of the largest sources I had seen today - Yeah, you know, interesting thing about the Salton Sea, I just

12:38 watched a show, and they showed some old the 1950s from commercials.

12:45 I want to say '50s, early

12:52 '60s, maybe. They were promoting it as just as vacation destination. And they had bikinis everywhere skiing, all that. And if you go look at it now, there's nothing left. But anyway, sorry to

13:08 do this. Yeah, it's totally gone And it's all from

13:14 farmland, all of the fertilizers going into the salt and sea. So anyway. Wow, it's fascinating. So bear, so you're flying all over the place, whether it's dairy farms or mountains or oceans or

13:30 seas that I've never heard of. And you decide that you want to start a company.

13:37 Did this thought come to you while you were actually flying the plane and you had to catch yourself. I'm guessing, like I picture the genesis of Earth view happening when you're literally on a plane

13:48 and you're like, I gotta land this thing somewhere. I got this business, I gotta start. But why don't you give us sort of the initial way that you thought of the idea of what Earth view is doing,

13:57 putting physical methane emission sniffers on wells and other emitting areas and sort of where has it taken you over the past, I think four years - Yeah, definitely. So, you know, the idea for

14:10 Earth, you didn't really happen when I was flying this research pilot. I certainly was starting to kind of get a sense that there's a very large potential market here and that really there's a real

14:22 problem, right? I actually, you know, I got birds I view of the problem flying that plane around. And I remember, you know, I remember taking off out of Midland sometime in 2018 or '19. And it

14:37 was at night and I remember just, it was felt like it was like the dawn, which is how much flair was going on. To me, that was kind of like, Wow, okay, we've got to, there's going to be a

14:46 substantial problem. Now I had no idea how things would kind of progress up to this point. But I just remember thinking in my gut, like there's something here. And aircraft, at least the way we

14:58 were flying, the research planes was not really conducive

15:03 to well-pad by well-pad surveys, right? I mean, it just wasn't the best method for the job. So - What was the, what was the, on the planes themselves, what were you using cameras to capture

15:15 everything - Yeah, and then we were all in situ measurements using a Picara gas analyzer. So, you know, about a 150, 000 piece of equipment in the back of the plane - Yeah, right - Wow - But

15:29 that required us, you know, since we're doing in situ measurements, that required us to get, to get in love, right? I mean, you know, I was, you know, for me,

15:41 You know, 100 feet was kind of like a normal operating altitude. 100 feet. Yeah, we're really low.

15:47 So part of your. Well, that is a middle of the nose. So there's no trees, right? Yeah, that's right. I mean, we'd be right about the trees. I have some videos. Probably I don't want to.

15:59 I'm not broken. Some rules there, but you know. Got to get low. We did have permission from the FAA to fly down that low, but it was just hairy You know, I mean, there's just no way they get

16:10 around it. Fly low is pretty much the opposite of what they teach you from day one of any pilot train. It's like you need to get altitude into go to get to going You're. that options.

16:23 But yeah, so just kind of seeing the. Well, I'm bringing the Air Force Brad here. My dad, every story he tells of investigating a plane crash starts with, they were flying too low. Yeah Well,

16:37 that was actually. The dream of my only this bridge.

16:42 Yeah, I mean if you spend all your time down low, I mean eventually someone's gonna have it. It's just a numbers game So, you know for me the flight of the aircraft was just it wasn't a it was a

16:50 really kind of a hairy

16:53 Flight pattern that I just didn't want to do for much longer And then you know it was hard being on the road as a research pilot I mean you're literally you're gone for six eight weeks of time back

17:03 for a week back out on the road It was just it was exhausting doing that for three years, but I really felt that there was a problem Right, so how do we address it and then the whole you know I

17:14 ended up meeting my co-founder? Who is a CU retired climate scientist? You know he's got about 40 years of research experience and his area of focus was up in the Arctic looking at CI smelled

17:26 permafrost meld Methane release related to that those two items and he was interested in you know, how can we? Build out a sensor network and we can see all these you know get a more Spaceship

17:39 distributed. sensor network covering the North Slope. So you could better see in time and space how emissions change through the season, right? That was kind of some of the inspiration. That was

17:50 really where our early instruments developed from. So it took Jim and I about, you know, you figure, earth, you got started officially in like

18:01 2020. It took us about a year to figure out where we thought the best solution would be And really we kept coming back to, you know, aircraft. Like I'm very experienced with aircraft and other

18:13 limitations and their strengths. Drones, right? Or like aircraft, but they're even more restricted.

18:24 The whole economics of operating a drone does really make sense until you can operate and be on a line of sight. So really it came down to stationary monitoring and then the whole, we're getting all

18:29 this data in time, really just resonated with Jim and I. We really felt that that was the way to go And now it's just a matter of can we make these low-cost sensors deliver data? that is actionable

18:42 and not just noise, which we did, so we spent most of 2020 and 2021 giving that nail down, ready for kind of commercial launch year, and mid-2021 -

18:54 And it's time a little bit of how we got rolling - No, that's really good stuff. So one of the questions I had for you, actually, when I came out to your warehouse and we first met, and just full

19:04 disclosure, funk futures is working closely with Earth View, trying to help these guys get sales I, when I started funk futures, I started it with the thesis that I wanted to work with companies

19:16 who had a chance to be disruptive, with best of breed technology and affordable cost, and nobody checks those boxes better than Earth View. We're incredibly excited to see the early traction and

19:28 where this could go over the long term. So I love what Earth View is doing. But one of the questions that I asked you when I first came out to Longmont was, how do you know where the emissions are

19:37 coming from? Like what's to say a big breeze doesn't blow through and then you've got this pad over here that's not that far away from this pad over here. Like how do you attribute where the actual

19:48 emissions are coming from - Yeah, I know that's a great question and something that we deal with frequently.

19:57 So typically, right, when if you think about a well pad and you can imagine we have three to four of our centers on the fence line So one of those sensors hopefully is on what we call the upwind

20:10 side, which is basically where if you think about the wind blowing across a pad, the upwind side is the opposite side of where the wind is blown. So emissions would not be hitting that no. So

20:23 that's kind of check one is to say, what is my upwind sensor doing and how does that compare to what my downwind sensor could do? And if you're seeing similar readings across all three of these

20:33 sensors pretty quickly says thomas is an op-hat emission. And we had to learn that the harder way, right? I mean, we, and I remember seeing it in the data, we're working with a client down there,

20:43 and we're getting some alerts, and it's clearly off-pad, right? We can see it, but our software hasn't, is it wasn't sophisticated enough at that time to filter that out, which we've now gotten

20:53 that solved. But yeah, I mean, generally that was something that we had to solve, but it's really just looking at the magnitude of the methane concentration readings you're seeing sensor to sensor.

21:03 And really what you're looking for is a similar concentration around all three, and that's a pretty quick check to get to figure out on-pad or off-pad. Now that does assume that the winds are

21:15 working with you, which is a limitation, right? But we're also there all the time. Great thing about winds is they shipped around, and eventually we'll get the favorable winds - And are you

21:26 tracking the winds with the sensors as well - Yeah - Since that's on wind and mama run. How often do you get. request for H2S sensors. And would you use that as an

21:45 alarm type status? Or what would you do if you had an H2S?

21:51 You'd have a sensor out here and it popped up. What would you do with the data? I guess - That's a great question. So we get frequent H2S and something that's absolutely our product development

22:01 line. It's not something we have ready to go right now However, with

22:06 H2S, it's more of a safety factor.

22:11 So, you know, how our methane system works right now, if you send an email alert that goes to our clients, it tells them, hey, we're seeing some activity at this rate, we think this is the

22:23 source.

22:26 Here you go, with H2S, I'm not, it would probably be more based on kind of the health threshold when people need to be concerned

22:38 And then two, just kind of the behavior of the gas is a little different H2S sinks, methane rises, so how we would actually, where we would actually sample for that, would be something to

22:47 consider, but definitely something we were interested in doing, just be, you know, this thing with a startup, right? You have a lot of different things you can do, but it's kind of our job is

22:56 to do laser focus and make sure that we can get into the market and expand our product line from there. So methane for us is just such a cool opportunity right now But other centers are definitely on

23:09 our, on our, on our to-do list, which is wrong and everybody - I mean, just for shits and giggles, I was on a call this morning

23:19 in UK, and we've got some pipeline ideas for hydrogen. And my immediate thought was, well shit, if there's a leak with hydrogen, you wanna know it.

23:32 Is that, is that an option to presume - Yeah, so I mean, really at Earth,

23:39 What we do is we take low-cost sensors, apply sophisticated software on top of them to deliver new reference grade results. That's kind of our mantra with methane.

23:49 Hydrogen is something absolutely on our list. Hydrogen is still a pretty potent greenhouse gas. All things considered, you definitely don't want to have it leaking if you can help it.

24:01 So, yes, short answer is it's on our to-do list. Very cool I'm sorry, we went almost 25 minutes into this and I got to say, Matt, happy birthday. It's your birthday. Thanks, man. I guess

24:17 that's

24:19 why I'm enjoying a nice little cocktail. There you go. We usually recommend that, but I don't know. I gave up drinking a few months ago, so I'm not doing that. I was going to say, the Huberman

24:31 Labs is unbelievable.

24:35 Yep, that episode has come up in my conversations in the last few months. So I started doing Monday through Thursday, I don't do any drinking, and then the weekends I let it happen, but it's my

24:48 birthday, so - So it's fun - So it's fun that it's Tuesday. Plus there was a soccer game, and it was on kind of a night for you, USA, took it down. That was a good game, I got to watch that.

24:59 But no, happy birthday, and definitely thank you for coming on to do this Bear, so I want to talk a little bit about the competitive differentiation. So you mentioned low-cost hardware, very

25:14 sophisticated software and technology behind that. We're seeing companies pop up, right? No one more prevalent than Project Canary, they've raised a ton of money, they're a really big company

25:26 here in Denver. Like what would you say is your competitive differentiation from the. Project canaries and certainly there's others that play in the space, but why would somebody do business with

25:38 Earth view? What is your secret sauce and how do you guys win? Yeah, it's a great question. You know, just kind of thinking about Project Canary, you know, they've done a great job of building

25:47 a lot of awareness in the space. And really, you know, with Project Canary, we almost do them more as an ally going forward, right? I mean, it's, you know, we're Earth view, we are in the

25:60 business of building the best, lowest cost, continuous emissions monitoring platform that

26:06 we can. Project Canary has really pushed what do you do with that data, right? When you do continuously monitor your wells, there's, hey, okay, we catch these leaks, right? But there's a

26:18 whole other, you know, you get into certified gas with either Project Canary or in my queue, writing, continues monitoring plays a huge part in that

26:27 So. Project Canary Ride, that got some really cool sensors. We're definitely right on par with them, but we're just in a such a lower cost point that you really can't scale this out to all of your

26:39 locations. Because just in my experience, any location can get any given time. So you really need monitoring everywhere. But to do that, you can't be paying 1, 000 a month. To do that,

26:52 especially on lower production facilities, it's kind of a cost game So that's one of our advantages. I don't want to let it to hit on costs. It's one of our main advantages. But it certainly is.

27:03 And that goes into just how we built our hardware, how we've designed everything, which all leads into the - essentially, we don't charge our clients for hardware. And then we do some cool stuff

27:17 in the actual sensor depth. So any kind of company in our cost point, in our cost bracket, they're likely going to be using metal oxide sensors. Metal oxide centers are notoriously difficult to

27:32 make work in

27:35 an environment where we have a high relative humidity and when you see that humidity changing a lot. You can get false positives which are going to quick way to lose the faith in the field guys is to

27:48 have multiple false positives. So we spent the bulk of our development period working on that method to correct for temperature and humidity and I kind of joke I'm on a picture of our platform but

28:00 keeping the line flat when there's no gas that's a lot of work going into that.

28:05 So that's one huge competitive advantage I think we have is just we really nailed how to get these low-cost sensors to really deliver near reference grade

28:17 data. So on a methane concentration level we're seeing a sensitivity of about 03 ppm which competing offers are in you're seeing since a resolution of maybe five PPMs, so we're really squeezing the

28:33 most out. And then two, the other thing we're able to do, which has been adding significant value, is we can kind of talk to the nature of the gas stream that we're seeing. So a tank emission,

28:47 for instance, is gonna have a much heavier VOC than ratio than say a well head release or a set of release. So kind of looking at that helps us to be able to better fingerprint where the leak is

28:58 coming from, which is always a challenge for points. We're on an imaging system, so we have to look at multiple different factors to triangulate where that leak's coming from and gas

29:11 stream, that I can use the wrong word here. But the wet gas, first dry gas does kind of help that. So just kind of some of our advantage is there. The system, right, it's portable. You don't

29:21 have to T-post it in. It's really sit and forget And then another thing too we do is we sample up. at 12, 15, 17 feet in the air. I mean, it is funny I go out to pads where we've got competitors

29:34 out there and I just can't help but notice that their box has seemed to get a little higher.

29:40 It's really simply because methane rises. So if you're down at four feet and you're trying to measure emissions from the top of a 20 foot tank, you're probably gonna miss some. So that's why we

29:51 have a big mass that goes up to measure that. So really those are kind of some of the advantages that I see Earth you have over similar offerings. And then really there just aren't that many of us

29:60 out there - Yeah, I would guess that if we were to have this conversation in a year, you'll see more and more companies come from outside of industry. But I think it's very important that you do

30:12 have experience and that your team has experience in the space because you sort of know the language and even just the acronyms that you've already used, right? You don't have to come in and try to

30:23 learn those fake it till you make it. This is a very familial close knit industry and people will discover the outsiders very quickly. So the early mover advantage that you guys have is a real thing.

30:35 Well Jeremy too on that note I just want to make one other point just about my personal beliefs that time to earth you too right I mean it's really hard to point fingers at the oil and gas industry

30:47 and say you have polluted over x years it's like we all use the products So collectively whatever the oil and gas industry has done it's because us the consumer have demanded that product. Now I love

30:60 working with the industry because I know that there's a lot of motivation to understand the emissions that produce them but ultimately right I mean I like to turn my lights on and I like to turn my

31:10 heat on me it's 22 degrees here in Colorado right now. We didn't have natural gas it would be a lot colder in my house right now. So trying to come up with the solution that doesn't just

31:23 you know, that allows us to continue utilizing fossil fuels for the next 50 to 100 years. I mean, there's really nowhere to transition to right now. I mean, there's a lot of ideas of where we can

31:32 go, but there's no real concrete base load energy source other than oil and gas, particularly natural gas. So getting to handle those methane emissions is a huge part of the energy transition -

31:46 Yeah, absolutely - Hey, man - So Matt, so Matt, speaking of some of those potential other forms of energy, that's kind of where you play, right? What is your, what would you say you do here?

32:01 You're over in London right now, you're working on what hydrogen pipelines, what do you got going on - It's kind of, I got a lot of stuff going on, but

32:10 primarily, you know, I started as a civil engineer coming out of college and we were doing Lowe's and Walmart developments all over the place. Tim used to say I designed parking lots and he was

32:21 pretty accurate for that.

32:24 But then in '08, it just took the huge downturn. So I got into the natural gas fueling market. And I worked for Clean Energy Fuels for two years and two different stints. And we designed and built

32:42 probably five to 600 natural gas fueling stations across the country And that's gradually bridged into what we're doing now, which is moving over into the hydrogen market. And just hydrogen, just

32:59 because of the

33:06 NRA, it's become viable in the US. So it's happening. It's just going to take a lot of time. But it's one of those things that's probably, you know, it's the early adoption phase where people

33:15 are going to make a bunch of mistakes and go the wrong way. And then 10 years from now, we're going to laugh at them and say, Should have - You should have invested in B instead of A. But it's

33:26 definitely a growing market. And a lot of what's happened - the reason we're over here is there is a untapped resource pool in Europe and the UK that's already started on the hydrogen front. And

33:42 they were

33:44 the early adopters, and now they're pulling back. And they don't have as much funding and everything else. So they're going to invest in the US So some of that

33:53 design team, some of that labor pool is available at a much lower cost. So trying to take advantage of that. So they've got a company over here and one in the US as well. Interesting. So do you

34:08 think we're going to start seeing more of these hydrogen pipelines drilling for hydrogen start to come here to the US? Because it generally seems like, at least from my perspective, Europe right

34:20 now is trying to be further down the path - We are - And they're trying to - I think they're further ahead and they've also gone down the road of, it's just all public money and they're playing with

34:33 it and there's no repercussions for making the wrong decision. Whereas in the US

34:38 it will quickly be a capitalist game

34:43 but we're gonna go through that same phase of overspending, et cetera. But the, I think you're gonna see a lot more renewable natural gas to hydrogen. And I think you're gonna see a lot more

34:59 solar with renewable methane reforming in the US and the desert of the US is where I'd say it's gonna come first. And then I would envision a lot more liquid storage of liquid distribution of

35:18 hydrogen in the US probably ammonia on

35:25 the, on the, uh, see the marine application, if you will - So you mentioned the NRA. This is not a podcast about guns. I think what you were referring to is the IRA - IRA, sorry -

35:40 That's all right. That's okay. That's okay. If I didn't have to correct a loser on a podcast, it wouldn't be a podcast for me. But the Inflation Reduction Act, I'm not gonna sit here and

35:48 pontificate that I know exactly what it is. In fact, sometime in December, I'm having two guys who work very closely in sort of the energy transition, energy technology space to come on and break

36:00 it down for novices like me and explain what the Inflation Reduction Act is. But effectively, and bear, maybe you know a little bit more about this and have studied SB 1137 and the Inflation

36:12 Reduction Act more than me, but effectively what's happened is starting really in 2023, There's going to be a significant.

36:21 fee structure placed on any company, not just oil and gas companies, but any company that emits methane at a significant rate. And there's going to be thresholds and effectively very large fines

36:34 for companies like to the order of, and I think Barry, you're more aware of this, for some companies like hundreds of millions of dollars. Do you want to give a little bit of insight into what

36:45 you've learned about the IRA to this point and how it's going to affect, at least in this case, operators, landfills, midstream companies? I just have a hard time saying IRA without thinking

36:58 Irish Republican army. You've got to be careful because you're in England, so I get it.

37:05 That makes sense. Yeah, so I guess, you know, Jerry, I wonder if you could find any actual senators or people who passed the IRA that actually know it that well either

37:18 But yeah, I mean, there's certainly implications for methane emissions built into the IRA. So, kind of what we see at Earthview right is, there's no teeth embedded in this bill. Now I haven't

37:34 read it, I couldn't talk for 30 minutes about it, but how it affects Earthview is that, oil and gas companies are more motivated to find leaks because it costs them, not only does it cost them

37:46 production value, right? I mean, if it's lost production, but there's also now you're looking at significant fines and being able to demonstrate that you're catching these leaks quicker,

37:58 utilizing technology like what Earthview's deploying to the market right now is gonna be a way to significantly cut down those on those feet. So, there's definite teeth in there from methane

38:12 emissions, particularly going after, you know, like you said, of knitting industries like your agriculture. energy waste is another big one. So yeah, I'm not even sure I was going to fully

38:26 shake out, but I know that it definitely has strong implications for both Earthview and for our oil and gas customers - Yeah. Are you kind of telling me - Sorry, are you getting any regulatory?

38:45 Like I asked you earlier about the AQMD and Bay Area AQMD or any of those regulatory agencies coming to you or are you seeing any push for them to monitor this stuff and be the ones issue in the fines?

39:01 Or is it, how are you seeing that kind of playing out - Yeah, no matter, it's a good question. It's something that kind of, where Earth you stand, right? Because we have a fine line, right?

39:16 Because we need to be a third party kind of - know, on our own right. So I don't like the idea of governments right, utilizing our product to find our customers. So to me, I like to like we just

39:31 deployed our first news out California. I would prefer to have our customers being the oil and gas operators adopt our technology, understand it, then start bringing in some of the regulatory and

39:45 showing and go into them with data that says, look, here's two months of data, we caught nine leaks that wouldn't have been we wouldn't have even caught these leaks if we were doing it in a

39:56 traditional way. Just the guy that's looking for leaks. I mean, so that's kind of my thought on it, right? I mean, I would, I think there is a proactive self regulation would probably be a

40:09 better approach. I mean, I would agree with that. Definitely. I mean, I just I see it so clearly in talking to our customers here in Colorado. They're beat down by the regulations. And to be

40:21 honest, the regulations help me and they help earthy, but I feel they're paying 'cause I get beat down by a two because they're so limited in what they can do. They, we don't have any of our

40:34 methane stuff deployed here in Colorado because companies like, well, it doesn't check our box. We already have to do all these OGI inspections. Whereas in Texas, they're like, heck yeah, let's

40:43 do it. This is awesome. So it's kind of an example for over-regulation It actually ends up hurting.

40:52 It actually ends up doing the opposite of what the regulator's intended to do, which is just irony - Right. And in turn, being less sustainable and hurting the environment - Exactly - In theory.

41:04 So a couple just broad questions and then I'm gonna shift here. So like, what kinds of things create the most methane emissions? Is it the oil wells? Is it natural gas wells? Is it dairy farms?

41:20 You know, is it the dump? Like what is it that creates like the most emissions would you say and like how does it sort of tear down - You know, it's a great question. And I'll just speak to kind

41:31 of my experiences. You know, I think the biggest emitter I saw were large landfills, kind of in the LA area. Those are always pretty heavy hitters. Whaling gas has huge potential, right? Every

41:44 site has potential to be a huge emitter So just because I think the sheer volume of assets that we have in the industry leaves it to there's a lot of potential there. Now with not every one of those

41:56 sites leaking, but with like a landfill or like a feedlot, right? So it's not really much you can do and they're constantly pouring methane out. So in my mind it goes, you know, waste,

42:08 agriculture, oil and gas, I would say, kind of how I would tear it But, you know, oil and gas, right? We're losing. Estimates from various studies, you know, don't want to be cited the white

42:20 paper if I'm sure I could but it's something like nine percent of our Total production is being invented. So that's just like it's like You know billions of dollars in lost product. I'm just going

42:32 to the atmosphere And we only gas-ride such wide such an intriguing place for earth you to exist because typically The facilities aren't designed to leak, you know I mean your tanks are right, but

42:44 typically there's something you can do to reduce the emissions and it's a It might be as simple as both in a thief hatch or adjusting a generator I mean there's a lot you can do whereas oiling or

42:54 whereas agriculture and

42:57 Waste the solution is less clear Which is why oil and gas to be represent such a great beach and for a few time infiltrate the market That's that's really well answered and and I think you've told me

43:10 this before but generally you see more emissions at oil sites versus natural gas sites. Is that right? That's exactly right. And that's just because of the nature of an oil side. I mean, it's a

43:22 dirtier product than natural gas. Natural gas, you can keep it almost all in the pipe all the way to the sales line.

43:30 With oil, you introduce the oil

43:33 haulers, unloading and loading and oils, you just got these liquid tanks sitting there. So just by nature, it's just a much, I wouldn't say it's much dirtier, but it's clearly there's more

43:44 emissions we see like in the Permian as opposed to the Marcellus. It's a pretty clear difference - Yeah, interesting. 'Cause I would say - It's a very different - Differently - It's a different -

43:55 That to the moisture or is that just the content of the oil -

43:59 It's just, you know, from our experience is just having those tanks. I mean, you know, typically 80 of emissions are coming from tanks if they're there. We see a lot from oil tanks. It's just

44:10 all the liquids, I would say. You know, gas from just predicted 3, 000, an MCM of gas in February, which I don't know what that converts to an MCF, but it sounds like a pretty impressive number.

44:28 So if you can capture all that gas and sell it, if we can become an exporter again and be a goldmine - And

44:37 yeah, I mean, part of that is right, you're gonna find the leaks - Yeah -

44:42 MCM, Man Crush Mondays. You know, you two should just hang out sometimes and just make up your own acronyms. I think you'd have a really good time doing that - I just thought I knew half the time

44:51 - Probably -

44:55 And Google the MCM, as I was confused, as I was thinking an MCF, I said, 3, 000 an MCF will be around rages - That would be, yeah, that would be, we'd be in a hole to hurt 3,

45:10 000 thousand parents yet. So I got to do this bear. I know you get this a lot, but I got to get to the elephant in the room or in this case the bear in the room. Your name's Bear. What's not

45:21 about it - It is. Yeah, so that was the name they gave me. What I popped out of the

45:32 womb. But it's, you know, Bear is my middle name and Frederick's my first name. So Bear is a family name. It's my grandma's maiden name So I'm Frederick Bear, Gavan Jr.

45:44 So now the coolest orgy story, but, you know, to them -

45:48 We're born with claws or anything like that.

45:52 That's that, no, that's great. Nice way to honor, you know, the family lineage as well. And just something kind of cool and different.

46:00 And obviously I'm not one to talk. My last name's Funk and Matt's last name is Loser. So I mean, what are we, what are we doing here? What are we doing here - What's in the name anyway? It's

46:09 just a day. Before we end things, Matt, are there any other questions you wanna ask, bear while we have them - No, I think we got to - Everything I had, but what, well -

46:22 No, that was it -

46:26 That was classic - Oh, that was classic. Well, everybody, thank you for listening today. I learned something - Wait, I have to do it. I've gotta do it, I can't resist - All right, all right,

46:37 all right All right, bear, this is a trivia question. That's the movie about golf ever made -

46:46 I mean, I gotta go with Catishack - All right, it's too easy - Works the movie about golf ever made -

46:54 What's the one with the, what's the guy, Shyla, the buff, whatever one he was in? I don't even remember the name, it was how bad I was - No, no, it's Catishack too, it was the worst one.

47:07 I didn't even know that's any calibration back too.

47:11 Don't watch it. Trust it. Trust it - Did that go very - No, it was, they couldn't even get, who did the first one? What was his name - Rodney Dangerfield - Yeah, Rodney Dangerfield wouldn't

47:23 even come back for it. It was that bad. So he had his second cousin or something. They brought him in and a just news bad, bad, bad - Bad all around - Yeah, that

47:35 was my favorite - That's what Tim's favorite questions - Yeah, totally - I never mind you that, you know, Jaws or a binge or whatever, the actors, not asking me to act or whatever. Like, did

47:43 you ever watch the movie? You go, no, I heard it was terrible, but it sure bought me a nice house or

47:51 something. So - Right. So this is, this is funny. So, you know, I'm a New Hampshire kid. So I'm gonna go with Happy Gilmore, Adam Sandler, Manchester, New Hampshire. I'm going with that.

48:01 That movie made me laugh even more than Catty Shack. But I'll never forget going to the quick check in Plymouth, New Hampshire And it was like, this is renting VHS, I'm aging myself. of birthdays

48:11 on Thursday this week. And Catishack was never available, but Catishack 2 was always there. That's the reason as to why. But anyways, we'll wrap it up here. Bear, thank you for coming on,

48:25 giving us your time. Matt, thank you for jumping on at night, especially on your birthday over in London. And you'll be back on this. We'll do it a few more times. And Bear, I think you may

48:34 have your own content information coming out at some point too that we've discussed So it was truly a pleasure having you guys and I appreciate you coming on - Thank you. It's always a pleasure -

48:45 Yeah, thank you very much, Jeremy and Matt. Appreciate the opportunity to babble on some more about birthview.