What The Funk?

0:00 We've got Jeff town, um, what the thunk? Jeff, thanks for coming on, man. Appreciate it. Good to be here. Appreciate it. Happy New Year's. Happy New Year to you. I think this is, yeah,

0:11 this is the first podcast that I've recorded in 2024. So you're going to get a great, um, series of guests. And this is actually kind of a special one for me, not going to lie. It's very rare

0:22 that I have somebody who's dialing in from Maine. You're in Maine, right? Yeah. A new Englander, you know, I'm from New Hampshire We don't need to get into the big rivalries between New

0:31 Hampshire and Maine. But how we got connected is kind of fun. So I, my listeners probably know this. I grew up in Plymouth, New Hampshire, kind of in the middle of nowhere for people that don't

0:44 know that a couple hours north of Austin, a few hours south of Canadian border.

0:49 And in high school, when I was a freshman, the senior class, my freshman year was just was awesome My sister was actually in that class, but there were a lot of athletes. in particular, who are

1:01 really awesome leaders and have developed great careers. And one of those people was Justin Boynton, JB. Justin, I probably hadn't seen him and I probably haven't seen him, I should say, in over

1:16 20 years. But he listens to my podcast. He sees what I do on LinkedIn. We've kind of gone back and forth a little bit. Awesome, dude. He reached out to me randomly one day and said, Hey,

1:28 you're in oil and gasI listen to your stuff. There's somebody that you got to know. My buddy JT, Jeff Tauge. Talk to him. He might be a good guest for your podcastand realized after our one

1:38 conversation, not only are you a great guest for the podcast, but you're pretty much knee deep in the oil and gas industry, which I find a lot of people in New England that are. So, really

1:50 excited to have you on today, Jeff. I figure I'll just start it off with, Who are you, Jeff? Who's Jeff Tauge? Let's go back to the beginning I think you're maybe in New York. kids, something

2:00 like that. I think you went to West Point. Give me the whole story. And I want you to where you're at today at the Tangent Associates. Yeah, first shout out to Justin Boynton. I actually just

2:10 hired him today as our bookkeeper for Tangent Associates. We'd been trading emails for a couple of months and we finally brought him on 2024. He's gonna be our bookkeeper for the MA practice that we

2:22 have. And I always say his neighbor for 10 years in Sanford, Maine. And he was a great neighbor and he's been a good friend. Since I met him, but no, born and raised in Portland, Maine. So Ben,

2:35 Ben and Maine, my entire life went to West Point in New York after I graduated high school. Thank you. And did four years at the Academy, graduated in 2003 and then went straight to Fort Hood,

2:48 Texas, where's the Field Artillery Officer for six years in the Army. And then after the Army moved the family, I had two young kids at the time, straight back to Maine So I've basically been a

2:58 manor my whole life. other than the six years in the service, did two tours to Iraq, 2006 and 2008. Wow. Just North of Baghdad, Camp Taji. 2006 was one of the worst years. And then 2008 was

3:14 actually one of the better years where things started to quiet down, at least from a operation standpoint. So I got to see the bookends. And there was some improvement, at least, while I was

3:24 there. So, but the Army was a great experience. It just wasn't ever my long-term plan The plan was always to get the family back to Maine. My parents, my brothers and sisters, everybody is here

3:36 in Southern Maine. So that was where we wanted to raise the family. And then I, 2009, got out of the service. And it was February 2009. The economy had just collapsed. The housing market was

3:49 upside down. No hiring. But fortunately, West Point degree does go a long way in opening doors, got some solid interviews. I randomly got connected with a CEO of a small expiration,

4:04 EP company, exploration, exploration. We just say the exploration and production. Yeah, too many syllables. He was CEO of a small EP and he had just moved the company's headquarters to Portland,

4:17 Maine, 'cause that's where he was from as well. Of course. Why wouldn't anybody move their oil and gas company to Portland, Maine? It's kinda nice. He was, there was a press release in the

4:26 local newspaper that said this company's moving to Portland, Maine I was in Iraq at the time. My dad actually reached out to him. Today, my son's coming back. He's looking for a job, would you

4:35 like to meet him? Wow. We had a lunch meeting, and he really just took me under his wing. He hired me. I was manager of commercial operations, but basically, it was him and I, very small

4:47 company, maybe 50 people. We had a oil field in Montana, in the Bock and Shale play. Wow. We had gas fields in Australia, where we were trying to actually, do some offshore methanol projects.

5:01 And for four years, he kind of showed me the global oil and gas industry, and I fell in love with it. We were doing exploration and production, but there was a lot of kind of development work,

5:13 doing some creative stuff with different infrastructure projects. And I kind of at that point decided that oil and gas was going to be my home. There's a lot of similarities between the military and

5:26 the oil and gas community I mean, a lot of, literally, a lot of veterans. But just the discipline, the high risk environment in which we operate,

5:35 you know, the scale at which we function globally and regionally. So it's been a really good home to me. And I've been able to navigate a career, keep the family in Maine, mostly spend my time on

5:47 planes in Houston and Denver and places that need to go. But it's been really good to me. I love this story. There's a lot that I'm going to dive into here but I wanna go all the way back to. high

5:58 school, right? So you're from the Portland, Maine, the Portland area, and you decided to go to West Point.

6:07 Awesome school, obviously. I considered that route, right? Like maybe you would be the Coast Guard, maybe you would be Annapolis, West Point. There was sort of some poll, I feel like New

6:18 England is really patriotic in general. No, Pat's, that's a whole other long conversation It's been a crazy week with all that. End of an era. Yeah. End of an era. Start of a new one. We'll

6:30 see where it all goes. But I had a hard time focusing on work yesterday, I'll be honest. I was like,

6:38 I got a, I got a, felt like a loss, like a real loss. You know, I'm 44 years old and Belichick's been the coach there for what, 24 years? So more than half my life and just the unprecedented

6:47 success. But truly, it's, it's probably, you know, goes back to the revolution and the the Boston Tea Party and everything there.

7:06 New England is super patriotic, takes a lot of pride in country. And there was that poll for me to possibly look at going to one of the academies. So what was it for you? Were you decided, you

7:11 know, you're a main kid. A lot of people from New England, at least from, from decide to go to small liberal arts schools or the big state schools. Some people, of course, go directly into the

7:19 military. What about West Point drew you there? Yeah, I really didn't have a strong connection to the military My grandfather was in World War II, like most people's grandfathers. Mine too. So I

7:29 heard the stories growing up and was enamored by it, but I really didn't know what I was gonna do. My junior year in high school, there was a cadet from West Point that was coming to the high

7:39 school to talk to prospects. My guidance counselor pulled me out of history class and said, Hey, there's a cadet here. I think you should talk to 'em. I literally turned to my best friend. I

7:48 said, What's West Point? I had no idea where he heard it. And he's like, I think it's a military school. I was like, All right, I'll go check it out.

7:56 Um, sounded interesting. I literally didn't really know what he was talking about. When home told mom and dad, I think dad was quietly very excited. Mom was, uh, vocally very nervous. Um, but

8:08 I just kind of started going through the process and then obviously realized that it was a very prestigious academy. Um, military service was something I was, you know, interested in, but it

8:17 didn't know much about. And I just went through the process, you know, you have to get a congressional nomination and obviously you have to have all of the, the resume to, to be a candidate and,

8:27 you know, I'm, I'm really not that smart of a guy. Like I, you know, the Ivy League were not on my list, um, but I, I was well rounded, you know, captain of the football team, last student

8:37 body president, you know, all the clubs and association. So I was demonstrating leadership capabilities, you know, in high school, which is what they're looking for. So I got accepted early and,

8:48 uh, there was only school I applied to. I got accepted early enough where I didn't have to apply to anything else. I just locked in and, and that, you know, fit my personality. I'm kind of an

8:58 all or nothing kind of guy, you know, either all in or all out. So once I made that commitment, you know, I was all in and

9:07 I hated West Point. It was not good for me.

9:10 I was very anti-authoritarian, entrepreneurial, you know, like to cut my own path. And that's not what the military wants you to do. And so I made my things harder for me than they should have

9:22 been at West Point. But once I got in the army, the army treated you like an adult and a professional. And basically if you did your job and you did it well, you got some freedoms to navigate.

9:34 And I really enjoyed that. So, you know, you're 21 years old leading a platoon of 30 guys, gals in a foreign country doing crazy stuff. I mean, that was, you know, war is terrible. But, you

9:48 know, the leadership experience that you pull from that is just unparalleled So I look back on my services, you know, very fondly. It was a tough 10 years, stuff on families, but wouldn't go any

10:02 other direction at this point. Wow, so take me through, and not to just rehash all of your military days, but take me through a little bit, like,

10:13 what was it like being at West Point? I mean, you said you didn't love it, and I think that was part of my concern too, with going, I just wanted the traditional college experience. That's what

10:22 I was going for I wanted to sleep in, skip class, be in a fraternity, right? Chase Girls, play in a mural sports, like all that stuff. And I just, I'd heard enough stories of people who went

10:33 to the academies that, you know, it was, maybe I just didn't want that level of discipline at that age, but was it like, was it like what traditional college is like, where you're going to class

10:46 or like, are you getting up at five o'clock every day and like running laps around the campus and like doing basic training? Like, what does it look like? What's a week in the life of. of a kabat.

10:56 It's very regimented every minute is accounted for. It gets eaten here as you get, you know, in the years. Your freshman year is intentionally designed to be like hell and that's how they weed

11:08 folks out. Right. But yeah, it's very regimented. You wake up at the same time. Everybody eats breakfast at the same time. You go off in classes. You have to do extracurriculars. There's a

11:19 bedtime. I mean, it's not a traditional college experience You get more freedoms when you get older. But my aversion was that I felt like I was very disciplined and am very disciplined. I still

11:32 wake up at 4am. I make my beds out of habit. I've always been that way. I just didn't need someone yelling at me to motivate me to do that. I was like, look, tell me what you want to do. Tell

11:44 me to go run 10 miles. I'll go run it. Tell me to get a name like my science test. I'll do it. I just don't need that extra layer of motivation, which

11:55 juniors and seniors screaming at you. And then so that just kind of drew out the

12:01 stubbornness in me and I decided to butt heads with the system as opposed to just complying with it. But yeah, I mean, and then a lot of folks, that is stressful, you're out there, your friends

12:15 from high school are out enjoying a typical college experience. In your freshman year at West Point, you're not allowed to talk outside of your bedroom and your classroom. Like you just don't talk.

12:27 When you're walking to class, like you can't, like there's no talking. Like just little silly things like that that are designed to see how well you can maintain your bearing under such a situation.

12:39 So, you know, I was like, well, does that mean that you're gonna be a good leader? If you can, you know, stay quiet, I don't know. You know, it was just a lot of things that I nitpicked on.

12:47 Like I'm just immediately by rebellious side I'm sure you have some of that too, it's just like, why? Why dude, aren't social skills important? Was it mostly dudes, it's like 90 guys? I think

12:60 it was, while I was there, it was 8020. Yeah. Yep, yep. And you know, look, I still say this today. I mean, I've met some of the most amazing men and women at that academy. I mean, I was

13:14 not one of them, but - My roommate who's doing amazing things at a 4-500 company right now. It was just the stud that you would think of, right? I mean, captain all across team, straight A's. I

13:29 mean, just an all-around, well-rounded guy, extremely smart, athletic. There were some beasts and savages there that it was just nice being around those folks and in the military as well. Yeah,

13:41 I could see that. I've got a neighbor, Michael Upario, he's a couple of years younger than me. He went to West Point. Oh, I went to West Point with Michael Uperrio? Yeah, yeah he was not free.

13:56 Okay, maybe I'm thinking of somebody else maybe. Well, you know, there that'd be amazing if it's true. He is

14:05 awesome and still super disciplined and part of why he lives out here in Colorado is because he goes down to the Springs to be in the reserves. Yep. Still. And he's still the type of guy where it's

14:17 like, all right, drop and give me 35 pushups and even though he's like, whatever, early 40s, he can just bang those out. Yeah, I'm still doing that stuff. Nice. Yeah, I've learned, I've

14:26 learned a lot from him and he did some tours in Iraq. So yeah, I mean, it's possible you guys cross paths for sure. He actually might be oh three. Funny, we could talk about that later on.

14:40 So yeah, that's, that's fascinating. So it's not like you're going out and like hitting up the local colleges and being like, you know, we're, we're at West Point and trying to pick up checks

14:51 now. I mean, you, you really didn't get free weekends until you were a higher class group. And

15:01 it really didn't bother me a ton. I mean, that wasn't really what I was looking for anyways. And I think once you got comfortable with the rigor of it, it was like anything else. But by the time

15:14 I got into the service and the army, it really changed a lot. It was just more of a professional environment and loved the guys that I started with Fortunately, I had a lot of my classmates in the

15:25 unit that I grew up with, which was really nice, too, so. I mean, you might lose on the college experience, you definitely gain on the camaraderie and the experience of, like they say, being

15:37 in the trenches with guys that you, and girls, you really respect. So, I wouldn't change for that at all. Yeah, I mean, you have plenty of time to fuck around the rest of your life if you

15:47 choose to. And I mean, I went to Brandeis. It was like a very academically rigorous school. So it's not like I went to, you know, Michigan State or something like that, where you can just go

15:58 out, do whatever you want. State class all the time. Like you get weeded out or to school like that too. So I learned a lot, certainly being at a challenging academic institution, but it's

16:09 always good to sort of hear somebody talk about those days. So you finish up, right? You graduate in '03 Are you required then to do service? Like what does it look like when you've now graduated?

16:21 You've done your four years at West Point. Can you just go into the working world? Can you go to college school and grad school or you have to serve? What's it like? You've got a minimum five-year

16:30 active duty requirement. So everybody gets shipped off to the second lieutenant to whatever your officer basic course is, whether it's artillery or infantry. You do that for six months and then you

16:40 get your first duty station and that's where you kind of spend the bulk of your first five years.

16:46 After five years, your commitment is up and you can stay and do 20 or more. Or after five years, you can get out, go be a civilian. You have a lingering National Guard requirement or reserve

17:00 requirement for three years. So I did main National Guard for a couple of years just to stretch that out. And actually would have stayed in the main National Guard, but they were coming up for a

17:09 deployment in 2013. I had already done two, I had four kids at a time. I was like, I'd love to do this, but I'm just not doing the deployment thing anymore, so. You did two tours, right? At

17:21 this point, you're like, I kind of want to have a career. I got a family, like, what are we doing? That's right, yeah. The guard was great, but yeah, it's just an enormous commitment.

17:30 What's crazy, I just ran into a guy that was just finished his 20 years. So I just had my 20th college reunion. So I would have done 20 active duty years, and I'm 42. When you're 25, that seems

17:44 like a lifetime. When you're 42, you're like, wow, 20 years goes by pretty quick. And I would be a retired colonel at this point, which is just insane to think about. But so it's all

17:53 perspective, you know, it's just, you know, but I'm super happy with the career that I chose and been able to work on. No, it's really, really fascinating to me, the paths that people take.

18:06 And then, of course, being a main guy, but still ending up in oil and gas. So tell me a little bit about what it's like, then So you did, we're both your tours in Iraq. Yes. Yeah. So you did

18:17 two tours in Iraq. And this, this isn't a military podcast. So I'm not going to ask you to explain the whole experience of what it's like to deploy. But you fit, you're getting to the end of your

18:26 time, right? You see that, okay, the plane's going to come. They're going to send me back to the US. Like, when do you start shifting your mindset to like, okay, I'm going to be a civilian.

18:34 And I need to get a job. Like, what is that process like for you? And then how do you go about finding a job? I guess your dad helped you out a little bit by saying here's a newspaper clipping But

18:45 like, what do people generally do when it's like, okay, I guess I've got to go get a job? Right. Yeah, there's, I mean, there are some services in the military, which I thought were helpful.

18:56 They help you write your resume and translate words from like, I was a platoon leader to what that would mean to a business owner. You know, little things like that. So that the transition, you

19:06 know, you are set up for success when you're coming out. You also have, I had about maybe four months of leave that was built up that I could, you know, basically go home, still, you know,

19:18 basically be on payroll. That's a bit of a transition period, which was nice. But yeah, I remember being in the dining facility in Iraq with all of my buddies and we're just picking each other's

19:29 brains on like, well, what are you gonna do? What are you gonna do? Yeah, and like one of my friends was like, I don't, I wanna, I wanna make something. I wanna work, I wanna make a widget,

19:38 but I want that widget to be exciting. That's as far as he got. Now he makes jet engines, right? So like, yeah, these girls. of ideas that you're like, and one guy's like, I'm going into

19:47 finance, like that's it. You know, I'm gonna go to Wall Street. So you have these kernels that you think about. I wanted to do something that I thought was impactful

19:59 and that, you know, interested in me. At the time, energy just seemed interesting 'cause I knew that we were gonna always need it. I didn't even, I didn't know what natural gas was at the time,

20:10 I thought it was gasoline, right? So, but I just knew that energy was important. I had some inkling to head into commercial real estate 'cause I like the development side of commercial real estate.

20:21 I talked to a broker, a buddy of mine, when I came home and he's like, the market just crashed. He's like, it'll be five years before you can build a portfolio that's, he's like, don't waste

20:30 your time. So they're like, all right, that door closed. And this energy door just kept opening, right? So, you know, I think there's some fallbacks. There's a lot of like Academy

20:40 associations where they'll do career days, you can go interview. But I definitely knew I didn't want to go Fortune 500. And a lot of my friends did, and they've done very well, 'cause those

20:51 organizations recruit folks with discipline and can handle the bureaucracy. That was not for me, I knew that. So I started looking for small operators, small companies, something that, you know,

21:01 where I could have an impact, you know, when I was inside the organization.

21:06 And, you know, the doors just started opening. So it was a real blessing. Yeah, I mean, you said a few things there that interests me I think first and foremost, and I always say this on this

21:15 podcast too, like growing up in Northern New Hampshire, growing up in Southern Maine, people say gas, you just think about gasoline, people say oil,

21:31 you think about, you get your oil changed every 3, 000 miles. The idea of a pump jack, right, is something that happens somewhere else, either in the Middle East or somewhere in Texas or

21:35 something like that. And it's just out of sight, out of mind, right? It just sort of gets to you And I think that that in part clouds people's judgment in New England in some ways about how they

21:47 view the industry because there it just shows up for you, right? And your house gets to stay warm in the winter and it gets to stay cool in the summer and you get to fill your tank. But you don't

21:56 really think about the industry as a whole which obviously you and I do now. So what is the general sense? And I get this, I've lived in Boulder County, Colorado, a super kind of liberal bastion.

22:11 I would say similar in some ways to what you get in Boston and outside of it. And it's almost like me telling them I'm an oil and gas starts an argument. And I'm like, I'm just, I'm not gonna do

22:21 that. You know what I mean? It's actually an industry that I love. I've spent 16 years in it. I've built amazing business contacts and personal relationships. I've started multiple businesses.

22:30 I've helped companies grow on the technology side. Like, I love it. So I'm just not gonna dig my heels in and get an argument to me. It's like you said, it's something that's not gonna go away

22:41 What's it like for you in Maine when you go out to? kissle brothers or some other fun spot in Portland. And people say, what do you do? And you say, I work in oil and gas. It's a reaction. It's

22:53 not good. You know, fossil fuels is a four-letter word here in New England, and it's getting worse as we go. And I think you nailed it, which is, you know, we're essentially an importer of

23:03 energy, right? Yeah. We have some wind and solar, but let's be real. We're importing all of our energy and we take it for granted. And you know, I've been to the oil patches, I've been in

23:11 Houston, I know how hard the industry works to keep the lights on. And so we understand the supply chain and everything that goes into it globally. But yeah, you know, when I started and

23:25 intentionally gravitated towards natural gas, because I could see, you know, the Marcella shale, the cost advantages, the emissions advantages, the amount of resources that we had. I was like,

23:36 well, natural gas is the future. So let me build my career in natural gas. And for a little while there, even, you know, the Obama administration natural gas is the bridge fuel. Now, natural

23:47 gas is no better than coal or oil. It's the root of all evil. And when you tell people that you're in, when I proudly tell people that I'm in the natural gas industry, it's, it's usually met with

23:60 some opposition or hesitation and certainly a lack of understanding, you know. My kids, they don't really know what I do, but they know that I'm in natural gas. And so they tell their friends and

24:10 their teachers that, and they're surprised at how frequently they're met with opposition. I said, don't worry, you know, be proud about it. You know, we're keeping the lights on. We're keeping

24:21 those houses warm. But yeah, it's, it's, and I'd say post COVID 2000, really, it's, it's the energy policy in New England has gotten even worse. It's getting out of control and going to lead

24:32 to bigger problems than they, than they think they're solving. Yeah, I, I think so. And, and you know, to me, like, I look at somebody like Elizabeth Warren, probably viewed as a four letter

24:44 word within the oil and gas industry. And I know Elizabeth Warren is very smart, right? Like you don't get to be whatever, Harvard, law, professor or whatever it is that she does and sort of get

24:56 to the level of achievement and accomplishment that she's had without understanding on a global scale how important energy is. But if you look at sort of what she puts out there playing to her base,

25:07 she knows that she's kind of full of shit with some of the stuff that she says in terms of her view in terms of oil and natural gas, like we got to get rid of it. And I think that's part of the

25:16 problem. Politically, the divide becomes bigger. And for whatever reason, energy being viewed as something that everybody needs, right? It's sort of like, well, we now need to start deciding

25:27 exactly how and what that energy should be. I like to view it as the energy transition, right? The terminology has sort of been around now for a few years. I just don't buy that look at it as

25:40 energy addition. Right. If we stop drilling for oil and natural gas today, the world would completely shut down. And I've had people come on this podcast and talk about what it's like still in

25:52 some places and in China or in even in Russia where there's donkeys that are pulling coal to people's houses. And that's actually what creates energy for them. So I think we're a little bit spoiled

26:04 here in the United States and that we do take for granted. I think New England and California are like the greatest representations of that with, well, it just sort of shows up. And I can now

26:12 decide how green or clean I want it to be,

26:17 which is just a little bit mind boggling for me to see.

26:23 So you've worked for an operator, right? You started that around 2009, similar to around the same time frame that I started and really started to enjoy the oil and gas industry. 2007 into 2008 was

26:37 really good. Oil prices natural gas was over 10 bucks. Yeah. Existently, the Marcellus Shale, like you said, was blowing up. They're all these new plays. The Bakken was really becoming a thing.

26:48 The rediscovery in some ways of the Permian Basin. Yeah. You know, initial production rates going through the roof, new drilling techniques with horizontal drilling. It was kind of a boom time,

27:01 I feel like. Yeah. So you start working for an operator. Tell me a little bit about what happened after that. How long did you work for this international Portland main-based operator and then

27:11 where did you take it from there? Yeah, I worked with them for about four years. We were chasing a huge project in Australia to buy an offshore gas fields and turn it into a methanol project. It

27:24 was high CO2 content, offshore fields, like 7TCF of gas, I mean, it was a huge project. And at the time, China, and still is, China was blending methanol into their gasoline stream, like we

27:37 blend ethanol And methanol is a brilliant product. It's very stable, low cost, easy to produce, easy to store, ship, manufacture. So it was a great idea. We just didn't, we were literally

27:50 like100 million capex market priced NASDAQ stock. We were just a

27:57 tiny little thing, trying to swing with the

27:59 big boys. And so the project kind of fell apart. The CEO got let go by the board of directors. And so I kind of transitioned at that point. But I had fallen in love I had a broad understanding of

28:12 how the energy markets worked. And then I started to get into some opportunities locally here in New England. Because the oil price and the gas price split in 2013, we started compressing natural

28:27 gas off the pipeline and transporting it to remote locations. So for instance, Plymouth State was running their boiler room on compressed natural gas. There's no pipeline anywhere near them,

28:40 downstate, truck it up in these new carbon fiber trailers, get them off of heavy oil, get them on a natural gas,

28:50 and save them cost. So I spent a good 10 years in the CNG, and we were using LNG in the same capacity. It's kind of a virtual pipeline, move the molecule either in compressed or liquid form to

29:04 remote locations where they need it for power generation or for steam and heat, that kind of thing And then in doing that, I bought up against the midstream guys, all of the utilities. So

29:15 utilities, well, New England has been using LNG as a winter fuel to shave the peak since the 1960s. So it was actually an enormous amount of LNG knowledge here in New England. And I've been able

29:27 to kind of tap into that after I got off the, you know, working with the operator. Well, that's really, really cool. I didn't know that about Plymouth State. Like that to me, that's fun

29:37 information to add was a professor. at Plymouth State. So his office was being warmed by, sounds like compressed LNG, that you guys were helping bring up there. So fantastic.

29:52 Townjean Associates, tell me a little bit about when you started there, what you do in particular, and kind of what your forward looking plan is for this company. Yeah. So four years ago, I was

30:07 working for a Houston-based LNG company, and they went through a merger, and I just said, you know what, this is an opportunity. I want to go back to development and be out on my own. So four

30:16 years ago, I went out on my own with the intent of developing LNG infrastructure here in New England. So we need more LNG storage and production to keep the natural gas system reliable here in New

30:29 England. And I have been doing that for the last four years in partnership with some pretty big midstream operators. Over that same four year period of time, just because I was on my own, wanted

30:39 to have some diversity of income, my dad has always been in MA, and he's always had his own practice helping companies sell their businesses. He's been focused on manufacturing predominantly, and

30:54 five years ago, he did an oil and propane home heat company through a friend of a friend. He sold the business, and when I went out on my own, he said, Hey, I think there's a lot of

31:05 consolidationgoing on here in the oil and propane home heat. Big operators buying the little guys, the mom and pop, family owned operations, and I think we could go after this. So, for the last

31:15 four years, I joined him kind of on a part-time basis to chase down and help family owned oil and propane companies sell their businesses. And it's gone very well, and the natural gas development

31:29 has also gone very well, but I realized I was probably just doing too many things. I had too many plates spinning at once.

31:36 And I said, you know, if I were to pick something to go all in on, I'd like to go all in on my family name. You know, go in partners with my dad and build this thing into a boutique, you know,

31:50 small family focused mergers and acquisitions advisory firm. So we actually just kicked that off January, 2024, you know, formally. That's why we hired Justin as our bookkeeper. And he's still,

32:03 my dad's still focused on manufacturing I'm currently focused on oil, propane, and HVAC 'cause all the electrification that's happening through, you know, state-driven policy, the HVAC market has

32:15 really taken off. And over time where I wanna take this is keep it small and boutique. We like the relationship-driven aspects of what we do. We like knowing the owners and helping them with their

32:27 succession plan, their exit strategy, monetizing the retirement plan And I'd like to add leveraging my natural gas. you know, midstream, oil field services experience and expand into some of

32:41 those markets as well. It'll take some time. But eventually, I think town associates will have an energy practice which focuses on conventional energy companies in the supply chain. And then I'm

32:51 manufacturing and maybe a healthcare practice that other folks, other senior partners will run. But it gives me an opportunity to flex my energy experience. So when I talk to an oil and propane

33:03 company, I know the challenges that they're faced with, the regulations, the lack of manpower, the lack of training, the fact that they get called four letter words because they're ruining the

33:14 environment.

33:16 And so I like that. And then I also like just the nature of the work that we do. We, you know, the main is a part of the example. There's a lot of multimillionaires in the woods of Maine that you

33:27 would never know existed. You know, they - Totally, totally. They own the oil and propane company. They own a bunch of real estate They own the local. convenience store, and they just work

33:39 extremely hard. 80 hours a week till they're 70 plus years old, and then they finally decide, you know what? My kids aren't gonna take over the business, and it's time for me to retire. And so

33:49 we get to help them with that process, and it's very rewarding. And for

33:56 me, it's really about management and relationships. We're just managing a process. It's their business, and we want the best for them But it does take a lot of navigating the due diligence and the

34:08 contracting and just keeping the projects and the deal on track. So it's been great. So how do you, thank you for sharing all that. How do you find these companies? Like, are you proactively

34:23 reaching out to these people that live in the woods of Maine, that own the propane companies and local gas stations, and that don't have a succession plan?

34:33 How does business happen for you? Are you proactively going out to these people? Is it localized? Are you primarily focused on doing the companies? Are you going into Texas and Colorado and New

34:44 Mexico and Oklahoma? Like, what does that look like? How do you get your business? Yeah, so a couple of ways. So for example, my dad who has a manufacturing practice which actually has a

34:56 specialty in lighting, like commercial lighting that you see in hospitals and hotels. Sure He's got a partnership with actually a headhunting firm out in the Southwest. They struck up a

35:07 relationship. That guy's placed all the executives at the major lighting companies. So he knows who all the decision makers are and he knows once they're ready to sell, then he brings my dad in to

35:18 help manage the process. So they've got a nice symbiotic relationship there. That's cool.

35:24 So a lot of that's coming in through the industry, that lead generation. For the oil and propane, I had some local contracts, contacts just based on the network. folks that I've worked with over

35:34 the last 15 years. But we did traditional marketing, right? We got engaged in associations. There's some pretty good home heat associations here in New England. We started advertising, showing

35:43 up to their conferences, doing typical networking.

35:48 A lot of our deals do come in through referrals, which is probably the best way for them to come in. Of course. You know, it's a warm lead. They say, hey, I just heard so-and-so is getting

35:58 ready to retire and they're thinking about selling. You know, you really should talk to Jeff and Jeff And, you know, I applaud my dad. He's got a really good business acumen, but also just a

36:07 really good touch. He's very, you know, we're mainers, like very low-key, easy to work with. Like our first meeting is usually just lunch and, hey, tell me about your business. Like, what

36:18 have you done? What are your goals? Where are you headed? And then eventually once they decide, yeah, I think I'm ready to sell. And it's like, all right, well, here's what we can do for you.

36:25 Here's how we can help.

36:28 Over time, yeah, I want to expand into other markets New England's pretty fertile for us right now. But if we were to make a jump into like oil field services or equipment rental in in in Texas

36:37 We'd have to find some strategic partners down there to to get in get into Good thing about New England is New Englanders like working with New Englanders And so we're leveraging that as much as we

36:47 can, but eventually, you know, I think for us It's about finding the right niche, you know, so Oil and propane is doing really well here in New England You know, I think I can take that to the

36:58 Midwest with some other, you know, manpower and time and energy Because you know that niche and and we don't we don't take everything on We try to stay in our lane that we have some value add to

37:11 contribute So it's yeah, it's typical, you know, it's like being a small business owner You know how it is like you got to be a jackball trades not to keep your books how to do marketing at a

37:22 designer website I don't run a podcast the amount of yeah the amount of Things that I've learned about being

37:33 a small business owner or from being a small business owner over the past three years has been pretty awesome. I think like taxes is probably one of the biggest ones. I didn't really understand much

37:43 about that at all. And now I have like a pretty good idea to the point where I make recommendations. Like you should probably look into forming an S-Corp, right? Based on how your company's

37:52 structured, people are like, what are you an accountant? I'm like, now I've just from my own business for three years. That's right. You start to pick these things up and realize pretty quickly

38:01 that there's a lot to learn. I think operationally, that's an area I'm always looking to improve 'cause we all have our specialties. For me, it's sales, right? So I'm gonna be good at that. But

38:11 then there's also the account management, the finances, the tracking of expenses, the payroll. So many different things that I hadn't even thought of that just sort of happened when you're an

38:24 employee and then you have to make happen when you're running your own company It's cool

38:31 what you're doing, certainly. deal size that you guys target, are these like, I mean, you mentioned sort of individuals, are these like one to five million, five to 50 million? Like, is there,

38:40 are there deals that are too big or too small for you to go after? Yeah, that's a really good question. We, we like to stay in the five to 20 million dollar range revenue, you know, one to five

38:49 million dollar A Bada range. That's our preference. When we start, if we're breaking into a new niche, we'll take on smaller projects just to gain credibility. So we did a couple of some really

38:59 small oil and propane deals just to build the resume and get the exposure. But five to twenty, I think, is where there's a lot of value, right? We bring value by finding the right buyers,

39:10 hopefully bidding up the price and managing the process and monetizing as much of that owner's equity as possible.

39:20 And all deal sizes require the same amount of work. So if it's a million dollar deal, it's six months and 20 hours a week versus the same amount of effort. a20 million deal. So that's our

39:33 preference. And then I think rule of thumb, we're small boutique advisors, investment bankers don't really get involved under 20 million, some will even say under 50. So

39:44 we know that's an area that is underserved and that's where we want to spend our time. A lot of what we try to accomplish is through relationships. So knowing the CPA or the lawyer of the business

39:59 owner, you know, those types of things to develop that trust. But yeah, I think five to 20 is, and it's also extremely active. I mean, if you're a business owner and you've grown your business

40:10 to10 million, you know that there's real value there. And

40:16 depending on the size, you can be looked at as a platform, like a private equity group will then actually start to look at you as like, oh, I could buy you as a platform and then bolt on to you.

40:26 So those are the most attractive for everybody. The buyer, the seller for us.

40:30 Yeah, so really a lot of relationships on both ways that you build out, right? The, certainly the company owner, right? But then also the hands that are touching that company from the accounting

40:41 side, the legal side, and then the financial side that somebody has to buy these companies, right? And for them, it becomes accretive very quickly if they buy five, 10 million companies, 50

40:52 million creates a whole different multiple, right? Then whatever they paid for each of those individual10 million companies. See, I've learned to think about finances by knowing nothing about it

41:03 before I ran my own company, but you know, that at all fundamentally, that's always - I always say I dig in my MBA through University of Oklahoma, which was awesome, it was actually a specialty

41:13 in energy. So they had an energy practice. So everybody in my class was a geologist, a reservoir engineer, somebody from the oil and gas industry. So it was just really cool. But I've learned

41:23 more about business in the last four years working with my dad, selling businesses than I did in my entire MBA You know, it's like, it's hands-on, once you. Well, run your own income statement

41:32 and look at everybody else's income statement for a living. You realize, oh, wow, that's cool what they did. I see this. Yeah, that's a good strategy there. So I think hands on is always the

41:42 best way to learn. It is, it is. And unfortunately, it's like your failures become very real, right? Like the impact your life itself versus sort of like, you know, a project that you do in

41:56 business school. Did you live in Oklahoma for a while or was this all remote? I did. It was remote. Yeah. Yeah. Did you live in Oklahoma? What's that? Did you go down there at all? Yeah, OK.

42:06 My connection to Oklahoma was a good program, but I did six months before I went to Fort Hood, Texas, because I was Artillery, and that's where the home of the Artillery School is, is in Fort

42:06 Sill, Oklahoma. So that was my first spot out of West Point. And I actually loved Oklahoma. It was just my vibe. I love it too. Quiet, nobody's out there, beautiful plains, buffalo, bison,

42:07 walking around. It was

42:15 cool.

42:30 And so when I had the opportunity to go back

42:32 to University of Oklahoma, it was a good fit. It's interesting to hear you say that. I've always felt this real kinship with Oklahoma and Oklahomans too. Texas to me feels like bigger business,

42:43 right? It's almost like more commercial. It can be very transactional. You've got all the chains down there. It's just big. Oklahoma, in a lot of ways, I just feel comfortable every time I go

42:54 there. And maybe it's like the New England and me, the cities are smaller, the airports are smaller, everything's quick, everybody's willing to take a meeting. It feels like that more people are

43:04 willing to put their cards on the table. So it's fun for me to hear that you've sort of had similar experiences and back kinship with the sooner state as well. Yeah. It was hard for me

43:17 transitioning into the business 'cause I'm just extremely candid and open. And if we're gonna have a meeting, I wanna get straight to the bottom line as quickly as possible. Me too And Manors, I,

43:28 you know. Once you get comfortable with them, that's kind of how we, it's like, let's not waste our time, let's just be frank with each other. I've always enjoyed that, but it doesn't always

43:36 export to other places, you know? There's this cageiness in other regions where it's like, I don't trust you, I'm not going to tell you, might show you my cars. I'm like, let's just, let's do

43:46 it. There's nothing I hide here. No, I love that. I was able to get back home shortly around Christmas and went up to New Hampshire. It tugs on your heartstrings to be back there a little bit,

43:59 but honestly, like what keeps me away is the weather, like especially this time of year. It looks super sunny and nice actually, where you go right now. I know, I know. Yeah, the winter just

44:08 is not showing up this year, which, you know, we're skiers. So if you're a skier and you're in the natural gas industry, you really want a strong cold winter. It just hasn't shown up for anybody,

44:17 but I guess for most residents, that's a good thing. Yeah, it's just, you know, at least in Plymouth, like it was gray a lot. And then you come out here, like you can see, I mean, Colorado

44:27 is just, A lot of the things that you can do in New England, you can do here just more in the year and it's everything sort of like bigger and

44:35 more robust. Where can people find you on, you know, social media or your company? Like where can people reach out to you and talk to you about business, learn more about you, get you on their

44:46 podcast, whatever makes sense, how do they find it? Yeah, absolutely. TownToSociatescom, that's my dad and I's MA practice and all

44:53 the information you need on what we do and who we are is on that Getting a little bit more active on LinkedIn, so hit me up on LinkedIn and

45:02 DM me. I am growing in my interest in being a fossil fuel and natural gas advocate because we need some sanity in the conversation with folks that understands what energy infrastructure will be

45:16 required to make this energy transition or energy addition work. So I'm actually doing a lot of speaking at conferences, I'm going out of New Orleans to an LNG summit next week. involved in a lot

45:28 of the gas utility conferences here in New England, so always trying to be out and about and speaking about the value of the energy industry and what we need to do from a policy perspective to be

45:41 able to move forward. But when it comes to MA, yeah, I mean, if you're a business owner and you're interested in just talking and learning more about succession planning exit strategies and

45:50 monetizing your ownership, you know, always happen to talk. That's awesome Well, Jeff, this has been really fun for me and I guess a bit of a plug. The digital wildcatters events are awesome. I

46:03 personally like their Fuse event. I don't know, have you had a chance to go to any of the digital wildcatters events yet? Yeah, definitely, definitely something to jot down. So digital

46:12 wildcatters, they produce this podcast. I'm good friends with Jake and Colin and others, but Jake and Colin are the founders and they've been running the company now for a few years. They do these

46:20 energy tech nights sort of regionally where it's basically like a pitch competition, primarily for. oil and gas tech startups, they run a whole different series of podcasts, but they've been

46:32 raising money a little bit more lately for some technology platforms, but also to do to continue to put on some of these bigger events. So they put on like a really cool energy tech show called Fuse

46:43 that I went down to Houston for around Halloween earlier this year. And it's one of the few shows that was like true, like energy tech show, like, yes, it's mostly oil and gas centric because

46:53 it's Houston, but it's fun to talk about companies that are in solar, right, that are in wind, that are in Bitcoin mining, that are doing the real diversification of their energy. And they just

47:05 put on great events and great shows. So obviously want to plug them. I'm going to nape in a couple weeks, I don't know how to make it down for the nape conference in Houston. That's a huge one as

47:14 well. Yeah, I usually do. I'll make this year. Well, I do look forward to meeting you in person. This is super fun. You got a fascinating background. I wish you all the best with business.

47:25 got to be fun to work with your pops here in 2024. But have a lobster roll for me next time you have an opportunity. Go ahead up some, you know, Bissell brothers have a hazy for me. And best of

47:37 luck this year. Appreciate it. Thanks for your time.