What The Funk?

0:00 what the funk is back. And I got the podcaster voice today, just kidding. Justin Gauthier,

0:10 who actually came on tripping over the barrel many moons ago. And I believe I was the first guest on your wicked energy podcast as well, which was a lot of fun. You were no, it's actually to this

0:23 day, I think it's like, it's still top three in terms of downloads, man. Like we I came out of the gate hot with old Funkadelic. And it's definitely gone good ever since. But no, I appreciate

0:33 you having me back on. It was again, it was a

0:36 great experience coming on a trip in the barrel. Again, my heart goes out to the Loser family. But yeah, I'm happy to be back. We always have such good conversations. And no, it's it's an honor

0:48 to get invited back to the show, man. So love it. Yeah, I'm really glad that that you came back on. I listened to your podcast on occasion. People are like, oh, you're a podcaster. You must

0:59 listen to a ton of podcasts. Dude, I barely even have time to listen to my own podcast. Let alone others. But you told me your like ours was great. Like you got to listen to this. So I really

1:09 love yours. I think we vibe really well. I think you're a great podcaster. You do great work for this industry and your career is super bright ahead of you. Thank you, Mayor. You're welcome.

1:19 What we do on what the funk and our listeners know this at this point, we're not going to talk a ton about business. I want to know people's story So I will ask you what I ask home, I guess. Who

1:29 is Justin Gauthier?

1:32 Well, I'm a husband and a father first and foremost. I mean, that is the pillar, the core, the anchor.

1:39 'Cause without those two things, you know, in place and going well on a macro level. There's micro losses, we just about everything, including your relationship with your wife and kids, but I'm

1:52 a father, I'm a businessman, I'm a podcaster,

1:57 And I'm a connector, and I'm a people pleaser. I love pleasing others and helping others. Seeing other people win makes me happier than anything in the world. And so that's who I am, man. I'm a

2:10 Canadian born to a single mother, grew up in an entrepreneurial family. My mom remarried when I was five. And so I grew up grinding it out with my parents' business.

2:23 I mean, even though I stayed up late in high school partying, I was always expected to be up early in the morning, going to the shop, sweeping, sanding, cutting. And so yeah, I grew up in kind

2:34 of a unique environment from that perspective. All of my friends, families, they were, you know, lived either to corporate life or they were, you know, work for a corporation or something like

2:46 that. And so the reason I say that is it's funny growing up, always was embarrassed to be part of the son to of parents who had their own business. I thought it was so much cooler to wear a suit

2:58 and go to an office with glass

3:01 windows. Now it's the total opposite. Everyone wants to be a freaking entrepreneur. The suits is often looked down upon everyone wants to fight the establishment. I'm speaking in generalities,

3:14 obviously, but anyway, that's who I am, man. Here I am. My day to day is I'm a US. business strategist for an old field service company We provide drilling fluids, which involves, you mean,

3:24 everything from sales, business development, and working with all the different departments within our company. Yeah, I'm a podcaster too, which is always fun, and yeah, there's a few other

3:35 things down the line, but at the end of the day, that's it in a nutshell, man. So there's a lot of really good stuff there that I want to dive into, and I think, you know, you and I now play in

3:45 a lot of the same circles. We're both wearing digital wildcatters hats right now, shout out Jake and Colin I'm going to fuse next week. Are you going to be there? So I'm gonna try and make it. I

3:57 was traveling, I was in OKC this week. I've got a big tender that I'm working on for next Friday. So I'm gonna try and pop in. I just, my schedule next week's already piled up with some stuff.

4:08 So anyway, I'd love to. I'm just not sure yet. And even if, so then if I do, I gotta get tickets, but to be determined. Yeah, I feel like, you know, I'm in Denver, which you have some

4:19 history here in Denver too, with the GEM program. Yeah. And showing up here Yeah. But you know, our backgrounds are actually very different, despite the fact that we swim in the same circles. I

4:31 think I talked about this a little bit on your podcast. The only thing we really have in common is that we grew up in extremely cold areas. I was like Northern New Hampshire, you're a Canadian. My

4:41 parents were both teachers. So my mom was an elementary school art teacher, my dad was a professor of psychology at Plymouth State University. So I didn't really get exposed to the business world

4:52 at all. In fact, when I went to college, my plan was sort of like, I think I'm gonna be like a history major and then be a lawyer. Like that was sort of the path. I hadn't really seen a lot of

5:07 other ways for people to be incredibly successful. And the idea of entrepreneurship was extremely foreign to me, especially then. And it wasn't really until I got out in the business world The

5:20 first job that I had was selling tech 20 years ago. And really started to see like, okay, interesting, a lot of these people that are running these companies didn't even go to college or they

5:32 didn't graduate from college, right? So my mindset started to shift with like, okay, so you can actually be successful not doing this in the traditional ways that I thought you had to do it when

5:43 you were growing up. With you, it was quite different, right? You grew up in an entrepreneurial environment So maybe for you, you thought, okay, this is always going to be an option. and we'll

5:53 see where everything plays out. Did you go to college? Did you sort of always work throughout high school? Like what's your career path sort of look like? Yeah, I mean, good question, right?

6:04 So again, I worked from the time I was six, seven years old working for my parents. And it's the only thing I ever knew and what I knew was that like, I didn't know really what I wanted to do,

6:20 but I grew up playing sports and so I wanted to be an athlete. By the time grade 12 hit, I'd realize like, okay, I'm not gonna make it to the league. So I might as well figure this out. And so,

6:31 but I hated school. Like I just, I hated it. I had a hard time paying attention. Because of my personality and my charm, I always did well enough to win the teachers over, to give me good enough

6:43 grades to pass. And I put in the work. I was good at projects, but when it came to tests, I just completely like barely scraped by. Mainly 'cause I hated breeding and memorizing things. I just

6:53 wasn't good at it. I had too many other priorities, like I said, sports and partying. So,

7:02 which also held to some degree, gave me through high school, but I didn't want to go to school be aid, 'cause I didn't know what I wanted to do. And I wasn't about to go to school and sit there

7:12 learning things I didn't really give a crap about. So after three years working on a drilling rig, I went, I realized, so I always wanted to figure out who was like the top dog on the drilling rig.

7:27 And it was always this dude walking around with a white hard hat that represented the oil company. And so one time I asked, we were drilling for Petro, Canada. And I asked the gentleman's name,

7:39 walking around, his gloves were bright. His hard hat was white. I was like, man, like, What do you do and how do I get there? And he basically said, man, you can either spend the next 15

7:49 years out on a rig or you can go back to school. And I said, well, what do I gotta take? And he said, you can do petroleum engineering. And I was like, all right. So that night when I, or at

7:58 some point, when I got to internet, I started doing some research. And then I went and did my petroleum engineering technology degree at SAIT, which is in Calgary. And at the time, I still, the

8:09 North Star was like, just make as much money as possible. And that seemed to me like, boiling gas makes much money And I made more as a rig hand than I made like three times as much as any of my

8:19 friends did that who went back to school and got some like, whack-ass job coming out of college. So anyway, I was like, well, this seems to be the industry I need to stick with, because there's

8:30 a ton of money in it. And so yeah, I went and did that and then got out. And it wasn't until a few years ago I went back to school, which I always told myself, I'm never going back to school.

8:38 Like, I did actually really well in college, but it's because there was purpose involved And it was partially my own money. I was living out on my own and it was like, I didn't have the parents

8:49 parachute to like, you know, hold me together. It was like, I gotta figure it out. So anyway, I put my, screwed my head on tight and figure it out and yeah, I mean, education was never

8:59 something I thought I'd do good at, but even in grad school, I did extremely well. I actually got the highest GPA of my cohort, which is like, absolutely mind boggling. But it goes to show you

9:11 that hard work out works, or hard work outperforms talent any day of the week. Yeah, and if you have both, you can go even further. Now, I think you said something there that I've reflected on a

9:24 lot. So for me growing up, my parents both have advanced degrees, a data PhD, my mom got her

9:34 graduate degree as a teacher.

9:38 And for me, it was always like, you're gonna keep going to school so I just didn't question it. And I think one of the bigger, not necessarily regrets, but insights that I took was I probably

9:50 should have had a little bit more dose of the real world between high school and college. 'Cause what happened to me was, I was a good athlete in high school, I was class president, I was captain

9:59 of sports teams, I had good grades, like really kind of like a top dog, you know? And then the guard rail sort of came off when I got to college, like yeah, I was still doing sports, but then

10:12 it's like, oh man, you know, I kind of got into partying a little bit more and boom, before I know it, I'm there at the end of my freshman year of college, my GPA is like 23, I'm on academic

10:22 probation, my parents are wondering what the hell's going on, we spent all this money for you to go to this elite school grand-class. What happened to a little Jeremy? Yeah, what's wrong with you?

10:32 And I think I started to see people that took a year off in between and actually worked or traveled the world May I add a different viewpoint and level of appreciation? for the education they were

10:44 getting, which I don't think I really got until like my junior year. Maybe I was like mature enough and I could kind of see like, okay, I see where this is all going. But at that point, I had

10:54 already given up half of my education to sort of just going through the motions, which is too bad. 'Cause I think my college experience may have been actually more focused on the education than the

11:05 socializing and the partying. Had I like actually had more of a dose of what things could be like if I didn't have that education, right? So I think your story, it actually makes a ton of sense to

11:18 me, you've done a lot of schooling as you were more mature and a little bit older, and you probably got the most out of it. And kudos to you on that, 'cause I think once you take time away, it's

11:31 harder to go back. It is, but honestly, the silver lining around the pandemic was I had signed up to go back to school once before, work got busy and then all of a sudden I was like, ah, screw

11:43 it, you know? But man, during the pandemic it was like, I can either sit here and like play on LinkedIn for 12 hours a day or this thing that I've been wishing about for years to go back to school.

11:55 Like I can actually make this happen 'cause it doesn't sound like I'm going anywhere just right anytime soon. So, man, honestly, I don't, if it wasn't for the pandemic, dude, I don't, I'm

12:02 really quite certain that I wouldn't have went back. And mainly 'cause I just don't know if I would have had the time nor the interest to sit there and reflect and be like, is this really what I

12:12 wanna do? 'Cause I would have been distracted with the day-to-day and just hustling and bustling and, you know, just kind of going on about my business. So yeah, the star is aligned there. Did

12:23 you live in Denver for a little bit? Yeah, I lived in Denver in 2000, from 2012 into 2013,

12:31 so it was a little over a year. So not a long time, but that's where I broke out in sales, like formal sales for the company I work for.

12:40 Still at the same company? I am, yeah, and I've been with them. Actually, I've been with the same company now since 2009, which is crazy 'cause I'm such a, well, here's a testament to the

12:52 company. I mean, they're ran by sales and operations people. So from the leadership side down, like we're ran and we know that we live and die by selling drilling fluids. Like we're not ran by

13:06 finance folks. I mean, obviously we have a CFO and all the rest of it, but the former CEO and the current CEO, they were mud salesmen their entire careers and decided to go into business. And so

13:23 we breed and a very entrepreneurial-esque business. Like people create value where they see fit. It's very merit-based. There's egos and politics in any company, But I think we've done a good job

13:38 building a team of people that. that gets put aside for the most part. Yeah, and so it's, I would have never thought in mind, wow, this dreams, I would have stuck with a company for this long,

13:49 but I, again, they give me the freedom to create value where I see fit, and ultimately it's helped generate millions of dollars for them, so it's worked. That's really cool, and I've seen this

14:05 across the board where you have, you know, technology-led companies, founders who are engineers, founders who are salespeople, founders who are finance guys, and that really does sort of

14:17 permeate down throughout the organization. So I think that's worked really well for you since you are entrepreneurial, and that's somewhat encouraged, I think it seems like, within your

14:27 organization. I actually attribute a lot of my entrepreneurial career, which I'm about three years into right now of just saying, I'm gonna go away from taking a W-2, and I'm gonna start my own

14:38 thing The transition wasn't. that difficult for me because being a salesperson, especially a sales rep, you really learn how to manage your own business, whether that be a PL or expenses or

14:55 figuring out when and where to be to get business, ensuring that the organization is profitable, that just started to become a part of the rest of my life. Even just down to expenses. I'd been

15:08 using expense templates. I use a system called Harvest. I'd been using that for years. So then when it's time to like, you know, I talked to my tax accountant at the end of my first year, he's

15:17 like, Dude, I really hope you were keeping track of like all your receipts and all this stuff. I'm like, Oh yeah, no, here's a report. And he's like, Oh my God. And you like took pictures of

15:27 every single receipt. I'm like, Well, yeah, like I know how to do this. I've been a sales guy forever. So some things sort of just because of my background in sales helped in terms of becoming

15:41 there are some things that I've struggled with too. Like I'd never really created a real like revenue forecast. Right? Like what is this going to look like to the line item, to the month, right?

15:53 To the resource that is now allocated to that particular line item. And

15:58 so something like that was new to me. And I was fortunate to be around some people who do have MBAs and have finance backgrounds that sort of showed me how to do things like that. But as far as like

16:06 using a CRM and doing reporting to make your clients happy, tracking expenses was all very sort of natural for me. And I think you'll see too, if and when you ever decide to break out, that a lot

16:19 of the things that you've already learned are very applicable to running your own business. Yeah, no, it is. And I'm very blessed to have a beautiful rockstar wife who is running her own business.

16:31 And it's funny because she graduated high school right away went into accounting, took account, you know, went and worked for CNRL. did accounting came we came out of the US she did more

16:43 accounting and so like she was like in but she worked her ass off she did well but it wasn't until after having kids she was like I don't want to go back to the corporate world which in my eyes if I

16:55 would have been if I would have bet on her career I'd have been like you're gonna be a because she like consistency she like you know getting off and not having a phone call or an email till the next

17:04 day because she saw how I lived my career and she was like like you know like do you ever put your phone down like this was back in the early days of ours and I'm like no like we drill wells 247 like

17:14 you don't turn the lights off and then we have to stop drilling wells like this shit goes on to all day every day and you know and then over time she was like okay she's just learned to accept it and

17:24 she acknowledges just like the demand but I say all that to say is like she's actually the one who decided to ditch the W2 well I mean that when we had kids she did and then she finally ended up

17:35 wanting to start her own business and now she's an entrepreneur and lives and dies by you like her scorecard not the companies. And so it's like, and she's responsible, like she's got a few rentals,

17:47 she does multifamily. And so she has a real estate company. And it's interesting, because a lot of the stuff that I do in my career, have that I've learned in my career and even, you know,

17:56 growing up in a family business, it's like, I can help her, even though I don't, I mean, I'm part owner in a business and I can say, wicked energies of business. I mean, it's small revenue

18:05 generating and, you know, there's expenses and stuff, but that's like at such a small scale, like my eight-year-old daughter can run wicked energy. You know what I mean? Like, it's not, it's

18:14 not that difficult, but it's fascinating to see my wife and what she's been able to do. And so, although I, I live in the corporate world, my better half is living the entrepreneurial life. And

18:26 it's like, she runs her own Airbnb and she got, got a call one night at like 10 o'clock because the people didn't have toilet paper. So she ran halfway across you into the fifth ward to go drop off

18:36 toilet paper and say These people couldn't have went until CVS, which is right across the street and got some damn toilet paper, you know? So like, she's the one getting those midnight calls now

18:45 and someone couldn't get in at like three in the morning and so bare BB called her and it was like, like she's living it, you know what I mean? And she's running PL, she's running numbers and you

18:55 know, underwriting deals and like, so I get a taste of it without being like directly involved. Like I'm like her biggest cheerleader basically, so Yeah, and you get to see the fluctuations,

19:08 just like in oil and gas, right? Where we're so commodity price driven, you know, now you're in the, you know, the mortgage space and the rental space, right? In the housing market. So you're

19:20 very keen on trends. Yes. In part from what you see yourself on your day-to-day and initially what your wife sees. Kind of a personal question for you. And somebody asked me this on a podcast

19:34 earlier, which I thought was pretty cool. This was a younger guy. He's an entrepreneur. He's just all about his businesses. And his wife is pregnant. He's about to have his first kid. And I can

19:44 tell that he's nervous about that. Just like I was nervous before I had my first kid and like, how is this going to affect me and my business and sort of like my own personal, maybe even selfish

19:54 desires for financial success or business achievement? And I have my own sort of views on that But I'm curious like, what did, what shifted for you when you had kids? Did you feel like your heart

20:10 became more full? Do you feel like in some ways it created more challenges? Like you worked harder, you didn't have time to work as hard. Give me sort of your sense now that you got a couple of

20:20 those little ones running around. What has having kids done for you as it relates to your own professional life? I'll be honest, so like growing up an only child, I didn't have to worry about

20:30 anyone else. It was like, it was all about me, right? And so, and then, you know, having a wife. I had to really give up that. I had to become way more selfless. Like it was like our time

20:42 meant together meant a lot. And so it wasn't always like, I could just do whatever I wanted when I wanted. I finally realized like, oh, like giving a heads up to her that I want to do something

20:52 is probably

20:55 a good thing. And so, and then fast forward to having kids, I was like, holy shit. So it was extremely difficult from the sense that like I had to put others before myself And I did a great, I

21:07 feel like I did a good job doing that or else I probably wouldn't be married anymore, but it was like really thinking like in the macro is like, I'm probably not gonna be able to work 12 'cause when

21:18 I was working before we had kids, like I loved what I did and my hobbies were work. And yeah, I did like some things here and there like on a daily basis, but like at the end of the day, it's

21:29 like I just loved working and doing what I did And so it was like, it was hard for me to really like, play with a baby that like, there's no ROI there when I could be like focusing on, you know,

21:44 building relationships with clients or traveling and doing this and that. So it was challenging for me at first, I really had to like find a greater purpose for who I was. And I really, I'll never

21:56 forget is like, I got to a point where I realized that as a father and having kids, you have a great responsibility to raise good humans to impact the world. And I always wanted to like, please

22:13 others and do things for others. And I realized like, if I look at a macro timeline, like they're only gonna be wanting to hang out with me and do things with me for like less than 10 of my life.

22:25 Like, or if that, whatever that percentage is just fairly small. And so I just like took it upon myself as like, okay, like I really got to put in the time And if that means my career grows.

22:36 slows down. That's totally okay, such as long as I raise great human beings that can impact the world in a great way, then that's what life's about. It's not how far I can make it, how much money

22:50 I can make it, how many titles I can acquire along the way. So I realized, okay, I need to get off my high horse and realize that there's a greater purpose to life than the monetary returns that

23:05 you get from working your ass off while are still important to some, including myself. I love it. But it just really realized there's more to life and just like chill the F out. Like, work's

23:15 going to be there the next day. And then it came down to like communicating with my wife because, you know, that was another thing is like, really, you know, anyone who has kids knows that like

23:25 having kids test your marriage. And so I really put focus on trying to make sure that like she was good and really, I had to work on listening, like my listening skills are terrible because I hear

23:36 one thing that goes out the other because my brain's thinking something different. So there was a lot of stuff I had to work on and I still do, but I mean, that's a freaking long ass answer to a

23:45 short question. But to sum it up, I would say it made me way more selfless. I had to put others before myself and I had to not put work as a priority like all the time I never really chased balance

24:01 because I think when people talk about like, oh, it's, you know, it's with a work life balance. And although I acknowledge that as a good idea, because at the end of the day, you can't just if

24:12 you have a family, you can't just work all the time because ultimately it's going to, you're going to spiral out of control, you're going to have a shitty relationship with your wife and kids and

24:17 you're going to live in a really painful situation probably for a long time. Absolutely. But in the macro, I think it's important to look back and be like, was I there when I needed to be was I

24:27 did I do the best I could given the circumstance and like. There might be days where I only focus on work and I'm not really present, maybe I'm traveling. But over the course of like, since the

24:38 day they were born till now, have I spent good quality time with them? Have I done the things? Have I been attentive? Have I, you know, have I been a good parent, a good husband? Yeah, like

24:49 it seems like it has been. And so I'm like, okay, cool. But like, there's some days where, like you can't think every single day, okay, I gotta spend like X amount of hours doing this, X

24:58 amount of hours doing that. 'Cause reality is, especially in our business, it's not gonna happen. So it's not beating yourself up too. That's another big one. It's like, don't be so hard on

25:07 yourself 'cause you have time on your side, which most people would disagree with. But if you manage it accordingly, you do.

25:15 Yeah, well, I appreciate the detailed answer 'cause it's not a yes or no question. It requires some nuance. I think for me, I was kind of anxious about having kids and some of those anxieties

25:28 come true 'cause kids earn expense and they require your attention, they require your money, they require your focus, which will, in turn, take away from other things that you have, but I think

25:39 with a little perspective, you realize that's actually what really matters. 'Cause, you know, a friend of mine who's actually Canadian said this to me a little over a year ago, I forget the

25:49 context of the conversation, but he said, you know, I think I was complaining about business or something. He said, Jeremy, like, you're gonna have a lot of jobs, but you're only gonna have

25:59 one life, right? So it's gonna be really important for you to look at, are you happy in your day-to-day? Because if your job is making you miserable, for example, like you could easily just find

26:13 another job. You can't find a different life, you can't find a different kid. These are the things that are important to you. And I even remember, it was particularly hard for me when my first

26:25 two daughters, two daughters in the sun, 21 months apart. So when they were like, three and one and a half, it was really hard. Like, we just bought our first house and we moved and I was

26:38 working a big job and traveling a lot. And I remember thinking, how do you do this? Right? Like the immense amount of stress, like, how do I balance all of these things? And you ultimately just

26:50 get through it. You know, I think it, for me, having the kids brought a sense of purpose. It allowed me to see there is a world bigger than my own kind of selfish needs and desires. And then to

27:04 create value for the family was much more fulfilling for me than just making money myself so I can go on a vacation. That's that I do very much look forward to my vacation in Mexico coming up in

27:14 about five weeks. Actually, fun. Cancun. Where are you going? Cancun. Yeah. Nice. Nice. Taking the whole family. So it's a trip, not necessarily vacation but the kids. kids love it. We go

27:28 to an all-inclusive. We try to go once a year as a family and just decompress. Man, that's great. We did something, actually, we did Cancun this summer. Man, it was such a blast seeing our

27:39 kids. Like, my son was at an age where he could run around with big sister, and she kind of led the way, and he just tagged along and did whatever she wanted to do. And then he got brave, of

27:48 course, then we're having to divide and conquer life and I rate. But it's, no, man, you got to enjoy it and disconnect and decompress. And I mean, again, it was like, like, I would have

27:59 loved like three days vacation afterwards. It's just the wife and I, but again, it's like, we're like, they're going to be 18. At some point, they're going to move out, and the wife and I are

28:08 going to have decades to fucking go on vacation together. So it's like, at the time, I'm like, oh, it'd sure be nice if it was just you and I. I'm like, dude, snap out of it, man. Don't be

28:16 such a little selfish little bitch. I guess you're going to have time I'm like, God, you guys struggle with that all the time. I love it. I love it. What prompted you to start podcasting?

28:28 Man, so

28:31 I've always had such a high degree of curiosity, right? And so

28:37 there was a point where I wanted to start a gym because that's a passion of mine. If I wasn't an oil and gas, I would be something in the health and fitness sports performance space. And so I

28:47 always, that was always my vocation. I wanted to open up a gym and there was a group out of Memphis called Barbell Shrugged and they're a group of crossfitters who started a gym. And they started a

29:00 podcast back in like 2012 or 13 that they basically, every episode was a segment into how do you start a gym? What systems do you use? What tech stack do you use? How do you gain members? And so

29:14 it was almost like they developed a playbook to start a gym. So then, so I listened to that for like, like however long And then I, and then I was like, this podcast and things craze, I'm like,

29:25 there's like I would pay for this information, but these dudes are out there and then I realized, I'm like, oh, they're actually selling something on the side, but they're using this as a

29:33 platform. And so I just thought it was like, such an interesting platform. And then I was like, well, if they're talking about like health and fitness and opening up a gym, I'm like, I spend so

29:44 much time driving and listening to shit, I'm like, surely someone has a podcast on like oil and gas stuff. And so of course, I type in oil and gas and lo and behold, Mark LeCoure's oil and gas

29:55 this week, OGN pops up and I'll subscribe to that. He was like the only one at that point, right? Dude, for so long, like for probably two or three years, he was. So anyway, I started

30:05 listening to him and then, and then I was like, man, I could do this podcasting thing. Like, I love BSing with the boys and whoever. And I was like, I could, I could do this, I could be fun.

30:17 And so then there was an opportunity when Jake was still there. He had mentioned on one of the episodes that they were looking for sponsors for Happy Hours So I reached out to Jake. I was like, hey,

30:28 I'm a young dude in oil and gas. I think I'd be like, I'd really love to be a part of this OGN thing you're doing. And I'd love to sponsor a happy hour. Well, they didn't have any room available

30:40 for that 'cause they had already booked it up. Well, then I met with Mark and Jake 'cause they were looking for sponsors for another podcast. And at the time, my employer was like, we're not

30:51 spending that kind of money on a podcast, are you kidding me? And then Mark, after that meeting happened, we had lunch and he was like, dude, he's like, I think you'd be a great podcast host.

31:01 Would you ever wanna do a podcast? And I was like, dude, yes, I want to so bad, but I have no idea what to do. He's like, what do I do it? Yeah, I was like, give me a microphone and I can

31:10 freakin' give her. But I was like, I don't know how to do it and put it online and all that. And he's like, we got you. You just figure out what you wanna talk about and we'll get you the

31:18 equipment and we'll, it'll be plug and play and you just record and leave the rest up to us like sweet and then so that's how that started. And then the rest is history. That started in 2018,

31:31 January 2018, isn't it? Yeah, so you were early.

31:34 First of all, for oil and gas podcasting, you were pretty early. And you've done hundreds of episodes now? Yeah, so I'm on like 70, almost 80 for wicked energy. I think I did 140 or 50 for OGG

31:48 and then we're at over 200 with the Flowline, which is the one I do for AES drilling. Oh my God So you've done like 350 podcasts? I think I tallied it up. I'm over 400 episodes recorded, yeah.

32:02 Dude, they're gonna retire your jersey in the oil and gas podcast and call for it. I don't know, man. There's so many other good ones out there and it's funny because like, you would think that

32:14 if I've been doing it for this long, like I'd have like thousands of downloads and like millions of impressions, but it's like, dude, it is a grind. Like, you know, I don't even like, I don't

32:25 even look at the downloads anymore 'cause I'm like, you know, it's not that it's discouraging, but we're in such a niche ecosystem that unless you're like spending marketing time and effort and

32:36 dollars to pump out the podcast, it's hard to scale. But you know what, I'm totally cool with that. Like, I'm gonna do this for the rest of my career. So whether I have 100 downloads an episode

32:47 or I get 1, 000, at this point I don't really care 'cause I'm putting out good content, I'm having good conversations and it's, people are listening to it and hopefully learning something. So

32:56 it's like, whether it's two people or 200, I really give a shit. Somebody, yeah, all you need is a few people to get value out of it. You know, every once in a while on these podcasts it'll be

33:04 like, I don't know who listens to this. And almost like clockwork, three or four people reach out like, dude, I listened to it. I listened to all your episodes. Well dude, so perfect example,

33:13 right? Like, it's about providing value, right? Yeah. So I had a student on from Donovan Ventures.

33:21 and his name is Jordan Stone, young kid, super sharp man, grew up in the like around Shreveport, I think. So he was like very exposed to the Haynesville, but just like, just an overall, like

33:33 he's just a great guy. And he's like 27 years old. He's big in the EFT space too, which is cool, right? And so, anyway, I had him on. And he sent me a text message. And he's like, dude,

33:42 like thanks again for having me on the podcast. I've had so many inbounds that like, I couldn't thank you enough for this. I'm like, I don't even know what those inbounds did for you, but like,

33:51 I'm so happy to hear that. So like, to me, that was a win. 'Cause honestly, I didn't know if the episode was that great. You know, it's kind of hard to judge. Yeah. 'Cause like, how do you

33:60 judge it based off of downloads? I don't know,

34:03 like I guess, but at the end of the day, it's like he found, like he got something out of it. And I was like, fuck yeah, like that to me is the best thing in the world. Yeah, I mean, all you

34:13 got to do now is ask for 20 of whatever revenue comes from those in bounds for him and you get yourself a real business. Now, I mean, that's fun, man. Like I used to, right? Like, yeah, show

34:24 me the bag, bro. Come on, man. When do I get an advisory seat at Dawn of Adventures? Dude, I think that Tim and I, especially the first, like, I don't know, 65, 70 episodes, we used to

34:37 pour over the stats. Like, how many downloads did this episode get? We'd check a day or two after the podcast came out, and then we'd check and look back. How did this affect previous recordings?

34:47 'Cause when somebody new comes in, like, you're gonna bring some of your audience now to what the funk, people are gonna start going back and listening to some old episodes, right? That's the

34:55 beauty of podcasting. It's sort of the gift that keeps on giving content-wise. So Tim and I would pour over it, and I remember I was about 50, maybe 60 episodes in, then I had two of my best

35:08 friends over my house and they're like, so podcasting, like is that going well for you? And I was like, yeah, it's cool. And I said this with like no hint of ego. I was just casually like,

35:16 yeah, I mean, we've got like 30, 000 downloads. They're like, you fucking serious? Like, yeah, what is that a lot? And they're like, that's crazy. I'm like, oh, I did like compared to

35:27 Chuck Yates. That's like 10 of what he gets. They're like, you've got 30, 000 downloads of people listening to your stuff. I'm like, well, Matt's not totally inaccurate Because I might not

35:38 capture views. Those are just on Spotify, blah, blah, blah, right? So it's just subscribers. It wasn't like as clean of an art to mathematically track all these downloads, but to Chuck's

35:50 episode on tripping over the barrel, must have done 3500 downloads or something like that. And that was like, that skewed the rest of the numbers. For the most part, it would be somewhere between

36:02 like 400 600 downloads, which I still found was. incredible. And I just really good, really good. I haven't checked what the funk at all. Like, I honestly have no idea how many downloads. And

36:15 I just don't care anymore. It's it's I do this because I really enjoy the camaraderie and talking to the guests. And if somebody gets value out of it, then they get value. And I've talked to my

36:26 good friend, Steven Hatcher, he's kind of building a new persona for himself out there as minerals guy, sweet, in the oil and gas space. And he was a little bit hesitant to build his brand and

36:38 start putting content out there. Yeah, right. But see, you and I think like that, but for him, it was just such a big leap of faith because he didn't have a big online presence. He didn't have

36:49 a brand. Then he's sort of like, But what if it fails? And I go, But what if it doesn't?

36:56 What if 15 people listen to one of your podcasts or click on one of your posts. And two or three people come to you and you get business from it. Wouldn't that be a success? Even if only a meager

37:06 15 people listen to your podcast or whatever? Like, isn't it about the value you could get? He's like, Oh, I didn't think about it like that. See, I think people wanna get into this and think

37:15 like, this is gonna be a grand slam. And it's like, you know what dude? Like a bunch single when it comes to content might work too. Dude, that's right. I mean, I'm so, it's funny that you

37:25 say that like some episodes, like for instance, I had Domburg, I don't know if you're familiar with Domburg. I mean, I feel like I've seen him. But he's, he maybe. Yeah, he's got like, so

37:36 him and his team, he's the green chicken and he's got the biggest, or I say the biggest, depending on how you measure it. But I think he's got the most downloaded and highest revenue generating

37:46 sub stack and finance and economics. Like he holds that top place. Well, I had him on and my YouTube, the episode of the YouTube got like almost 13, 000 views, which is like. That's a lot dude

38:01 on YouTube, that's crazy. Yeah, like it got like quadrillion more than most of them get like anywhere from like 50 to 80. Like that's, I'm kind of like in that range. Totally. Some of my

38:12 YouTube shorts do well because I'm goofy and it's like clickbait stuff. But anyway, so I say that to say is like, like I look at that and I'm like, like someone could easily be like, okay, well

38:23 that's the benchmark. Like I need to see if I can get 12, 000 views on YouTube every time. It's like the reality is that it's not gonna happen And so yeah, I try not to get caught up. But here,

38:31 but the thing is too, I think it's important to at least track it and have, if you're fortunate to have a team that can at least compile it and not really worry about the metrics themselves, but

38:45 look at the trends and be like, okay, 'cause like I have, I'm finally in a position, I have a little marketing team helping me and they give me a monthly, update and they put like a little deck

38:57 together on like what was the top episode and what was this and what was that and it's a lot of this stuff is kind of eye opening and it's like oh cool like that worked that's good but it doesn't

39:06 necessarily they're not necessarily putting like well here's how many downloads you've had but it's like you know percent increase decrease and whether or not like it's growing and in overall like the

39:16 ship is heading in the right direction but it's so slow like I was talking to I actually had Peter Perry on my podcast before this and he's he's branding himself as the climate banker he's an

39:28 investment banker who lives in juniper Florida which I didn't realize is like has a lot of big energy folks in there like next Tara's like right there but anyway he's been like in energy he's been an

39:40 investment major for a long time he's always played in the like sort of the climate space but also recognizes like the value of oil and gas and we're talking about like how challenging it is to raise

39:49 capital right now just due to like, you know, there's some biases around renewable energy and with interest rates so high and the IRRs are so low. We had a really good conversation about energy

40:00 finance and banking and stuff, but he was saying, You have to be willing. The short-term bag nowadays is a few and far between. I'm looking for people who want to invest for five, eight, 10, 12

40:15 years. You have to play the long game, especially when it comes to the energy transition and investing in all these low-carbon projects, and so looking at two months' worth of downloads, you've

40:29 got to be in this for the long run, because in the end, something will happen, but there was something else, Oh, this reminds me. You know the energy you're doing Celsius? Yeah. Okay. So,

40:40 fascinating story about them. The last few years, their stock surged like 4, 000 percent, and I didn't realize they'd been a company or they've been around for like 20 some years like before. the

40:53 pandemic. I don't even know like if Celsius existed, but I guess Coca Cola changed their supply chain. And so they had to start distributing monster in a different way, which opened up a lot of

41:02 the, um, a lot of the spaces inside of gas stations and all these places that sell energy drinks with the fridges, like it opened up like a massive space. And Celsius was basically at the door

41:14 being like, well, we'll take that space. Sure. And then the trucking blew up, but they've been around for 20 years. And like, they're like a mom and pop shop and all this. And now they're like,

41:22 they're worth like three lifts or something like that. Like it's insane. You got to be willing to fuck and hold your breath. You know what I mean? It's so against our nature as human beings,

41:32 though, because we're all chasing that short-term win, right? We want that dopamine spike where we can get it and thinking long-term is difficult. You know, I have a number of projects, funk

41:41 futures is completely bootstrapped, self-funded. But I have some technology companies that are on the side that are starting to grow a little I'll start talking about them more when they're ready.

41:53 But those, you know, those have investors. And to me, like I wake up every day with this guilt that I haven't returned their money to them. And I think that these investors go into it with the

42:05 mindset of, well, this is like a longer-term play. And generally they're a little bit older, they've had some wins, they've had some losses, they understand the investment game, but they'll

42:17 probably win in the long run because they have somebody like me stressing about not creating a return six months into the investment, right? So it's

42:27 crazy for me to see. And I think that it's just the mindset of the investor that can look 10 to 12 years down the road is advantageous compared to somebody that wants to return in two months. It's

42:39 just not realistic. No, that's so true, man. It's like I always say is like whoever can eat the most shit ends up eating the most caviar, you gotta be just grind it out, man. Yeah, I mean,

42:51 another, another one of my friends who's a, who's an entrepreneur said along similar lines is like, you know, running your own business is basically an exercise and how much shit you can eat at

43:01 any given day and then waking up again the next day and doing it again. Like, yeah, that's kind of some summarizes my life. Yeah. You know, I love it. Jerry, I'm curious on your thought, like

43:13 kind of going back to the original part of the conversation was like, I grew up and I was, I felt ashamed. Growing up in an entrepreneurial family. Like, again, I was like, I felt like I was a

43:26 second-class citizen because my parents, like we had our own storefront in mall and like, you know, they didn't work for some fancy company and were like corporate suits, right? Well, then fast

43:36 forward to like, I don't call it the last 10 years, like hustle culture came along. Then like, entrepreneurs should became like glorified. And now everyone, I say everyone just consent like when

43:48 you look at it it's like Entrepreneurship is like kind of like everyone's like I want to just start my own thing. I want to start my own business I want to have a side hustle whereas like you know

43:59 Now it's like if if you grew up in a family where like your parents are working from home and they got multiple businesses and They get to make their own schedule and all this stuff. It's cool But a

44:13 lot of money has been lost a lot of people have failed Do you see the pendulum swaying back to where people are gonna be like, you know what like this entrepreneur shit's whack Like I'm gonna go back

44:24 to working at W like do you think it'll be sexy again to go work for a cool corporate company? Yes, I Are you saying that's gonna happen? I I'm not seeing it yet I think people still want to figure

44:39 it out for themselves and also I think the pandemic changed this a little bit with people Yeah, all of a sudden working from home and and developing this level of like freedom and time and autonomy

44:49 to think that You could just run a side business, but as people start getting back in the office, assuming that's a thing, I think that dream will die a little bit. But dude, there's a lot that

45:02 goes into running and starting your own thing. And I don't sleep particularly well at night that there's not a great deal of security. You can get fired at any time by your clients. You're

45:12 constantly hustling, you're stressing. I see this with friends who are also entrepreneurs Like, you tend to hear about the successes. How come we don't hear about the failures, right? So I think

45:25 that the idea of having the security of a W-2 and a 401K and good health insurance, that allure will start to come back when people realize just how much of a grind it actually is to maintain

45:36 something over the long term. Yeah, yeah, 'cause the reality is like, while people might have entrepreneurial tendencies, which can be applied in a company like mine, You know, I've been able

45:48 to do.

45:50 Yeah, the reality is it's like, not everyone can run a business. And for so long, access to capital was so easy. There's so much cheap money out there. I think the next five years, you're going

46:01 to really see, who is the entrepreneur that can actually make this shit work? Or who is the one out there that could just get access to money and make it work and then are still somehow scraping by?

46:14 I think you're going to see the landscape shift a little bit But I think in all good reasons, right? Sometimes markets need to purge a little bit. Yeah.

46:26 I mean, there's also sort of the fundamental. As money becomes harder to obtain on the investment side of things, as interest rates go up and the VC markets tighten,

46:38 who's going to be able to actually branch out and go off on their own? Well, fundamentally, it's people who have money already. So then the American dream starts to die a little bit. because you

46:47 don't get some of these smaller companies be able to take an SBA loan at 5, and be able to put up their corner store that actually creates value and allows them to pay back that loan. So it's going

46:59 to be fascinating to watch. And it's sort of the same thing with real estate, which you're seeing too. Like, okay, the housing prices are decreasing, at least a tiny bit and interest rates go up.

47:12 I don't understand how people that are buying houses right now can afford it You put a ton of money down and then all of a sudden, your mortgage is 7, 000, 8, 000 a month, dude. It's crazy.

47:22 Well, okay, good point. But there's always gonna be buyers and always gonna be sellers. I think what people were buying five years ago looks totally different than now. Like, my brother-in-law

47:34 is a perfect example. Five years ago, he could have bought a nice place out here in Katie for, I don't know, call it, 400 and 1, 000. And it would have been probably, you know, a beautiful

47:45 nice new home whatever. Yeah. But now, while he's still, actually they just closed on it, what he can afford relative to, like the house he could afford then, now relative to the house he can

47:58 afford now, like he's having to accept the fact that he's gonna live in a different area, and he's gonna live in a much smaller home. And so I think people are getting a little, eating a little

48:08 bit of humble pie, and it's like, I think this shift of what, like who's buying what is just shifting, but there's always gonna be people who can buy the high end homes There's always gonna be

48:16 people who can buy the low end homes, but now someone coming out of college is probably gonna have to buy a one bedroom place in the third ward, versus like five years ago, they might've been able

48:25 to buy a three bedroom house out here in Katie, and you know what I mean? So I think it's, you gotta kind of look at that too. And I think the whole like home ownership game is changing, like I

48:38 think a lot more people now are just gonna suck it up and rent and be like, why would I dump a bunch of money into this home?

48:46 when I could just rent and still have, and then I could invest whatever I have instead of putting 50 or 100, 000 on a home. I'm gonna put that in something else. Maybe I'll be conservative and put

48:54 it in the SP or whatever. So I think people are just like shifting the way they allocate their capital. But again, it's super, super fascinating. I wish like, when you look at the trends of like,

49:06 what houses like, people with X income, what was like the medium home price that they were buying pre-pandemic? And what's the medium home price they were buying post-pandemic? And I guarantee

49:18 you'd see like a drastic change. 100. 100. Which is interesting if you're a data guy, if you don't, you're like, what the hell who cares? Wow, macro trends are important too. They are, it's

49:30 good to watch, right? It's good to watch. No doubt. Well, look, I gotta put a pin in this. This is a ton of fun. I'm already over it. This is like the story of my life. Everything's like

49:39 five minutes over. No, I feel bad sore I've been babbling about all kinds of raps. You kidding me? This is like the highlight of my week, but Justin, where do people find you? Where do they

49:50 find your podcast? Where do they find everything on? Yeah, so hit me up on LinkedIn If you search on Spotify where we find your podcast we get energy with JG And then on LinkedIn Justin go to a G a

50:02 U T H I R Yeah, hit me up on there LinkedIn's kind of the hub. That's where I play That's the town square and then the podcast you can find anywhere else Beyond that if you're in oil and gas in the

50:13 upstream space look up a yes drilling fluids. We got a great page You know, we're one of the leading drilling fluids provider in the United States For land and so big shout out to a yes Greatest mud

50:27 company in the world. So look them up to if you play in the drilling world The greatest mud company in the world Yeah, and I am dated approve it. Yeah, so in your face all your other mud poser

50:40 companies Yeah, man, I appreciate you very much. You've been there for me, you've always been a great ear. I've enjoyed getting to know you, our friendship flourishing and - Likewise, man.

50:52 Thank you. I'm a fan, I appreciate everything you've done for the podcasting space, for the industry, for your own business, for my business, for your family. Let's keep doing this, man.

51:01 Let's check in every once in a while. It's always an honor to spend time with you, my brother. Awesome, man. And for all the listeners and appreciate all the support that you've given Jeremy over

51:09 the years, yeah, and thanks for listening. If you've listened to the end, I mean, kudos to you, but I wanna give you a big shout out, man. You're crushing it. You got a lot going on and

51:19 you're still podcasting. You're

51:22 impacting others, man. That's the God's greatest gift, right? So thank you for everything you do, brother.