What The Funk?

0:06 Bitcoin and energy go together like two peas in a pod? Huh? Everybody knows that dad. Well did you know that donkeys make great crew members?

0:29 We're back. Thunkers. And we've got DP himself, Mr. Purvis, Twain

0:38 Purvis. This is your third run around of the podcast with me. You were on tripping over the barrel with Tim and myself twice. And now here you are first time on what the funk. Matt Loser, back

0:50 also for a third time, once on tripping over the barrel The episode that we did with Bear Givan talking about Earthview and their continuous methane monitoring and jumping into some of the things

1:02 that you're working on. So three different time zones today. Matt is in London. Twain, I assume that you're in Fort Worth today, right?

1:12 As always. Judge Madakarke is

1:15 on the wall. It's got to be Fort Worth.

1:18 Exactly. Yeah, I should turn on the blur, shouldn't I? man. It gives you some character. That's what we're looking for as if being the son of a preacher man isn't enough. Now we need to see

1:31 animal that you killed. Son of a preacher man animal I killed at a nickname DP.

1:39 That's that's you. That's you. So one of the one to accomplish a few things today we've had a lot of focus on the ESG sustainability conversation. It's relevant and will continue to stay relevant

1:56 particularly in the oil and gas world. But Dwayne actually has a conference called the carbon expo. Matt himself is quite involved in the RNG and electric vehicle charging space. So plenty for us

2:12 to talk about but. Dwayne, why don't you tell us a little bit what you've been up to for the last, I don't know, nine months since you came on this thing and give us a little bit of insight into

2:21 this carbon expo thing you got going on.

2:25 Thanks for asking. And I'm glad to be here again with you Jeremy.

2:31 So since we did the last full carbon expo event, we've done a couple of free, smaller webinars, one to talk about the technologies that people could use to repurpose wells It's a field that's just

2:44 beginning to open up. It's some really interesting ideas. It's not clear how far they can run, but it's great that people are trying to solve that problem. And then we did another webinar about

2:54 formal education for the energy transition, just because we're experts in old energy doesn't mean we're experts in new energy, despite what a lot of people seem to think And so we had a discussion

3:09 about how people can become knowledgeable about. this really deep field. But carbon expo coming up on March 3, just around the corner, is a full expo, about 15 speakers. And we're gonna talk

3:28 about how the oil and gas is facing opportunities in the energy transition. And so we'll talk a little bit about geothermal, but CCS and emissions reductions are two of our biggest And we've got a

3:44 big wig from SP Global is gonna open us up in the morning -

3:50 Nice, nice. So Matt, I know your ears perked up. You heard hydrogen, you heard CCUS. Why don't you tell Dwayne and the audience a little bit about what you've been working on overseas since

4:02 you're checking in from Europe right now - Well, yeah, I'm doing in the natural gas fueling market, which is kind of a niche in the in the US. And I'm, I'm starting a company here in London doing

4:17 the same. We've also got a Middle East presence that we haven't quite announced yet, but we're getting pretty close. But I think that you just did focus.

4:31 We've announced it Shifting focus a little bit to,

4:35 to the hydrogen front as opposed to the renewable natural gas. And it's trying to catch catch the lightning rod, I guess is the best way to put it just get in because everybody's jumping in. And it

4:52 seems to be it's it's happening all around you, but nobody really has a good idea of where it's going to end up and what the what the industry's going to do. So I'm trying to track down just what's

5:03 who's actually making moves and actually using fuel right now. trying to get some, some kind of a connection and get the, get the infrastructure and the fueling network to them. So that they can

5:17 have a successful hydrogen fueling mission, I guess. And then same time, renewable natural gas is on the table as well. So we're doing that all over the country in the US. And that's, I think

5:31 we've got several years of that until they run out of that. So that's, that's kind of where I, my perspective on everything.

5:42 Hey, Jeremy, have you explained to your listeners what renewable natural gas is?

5:47 Absolutely not.

5:51 First time I heard this, I thought, what the funk,

5:56 renewable natural gas is a big, any sense to me. The, the idea is methane created by biologic processes, particularly decomposition. So you can take what is a normal waste gas naturally emitted,

6:14 capture it, and instead use it as a fuel. So it's renewable in the sense that you can make more of it from more waste, but it's a great direct benefit because you're using it and releasing it then

6:27 as CO2 instead of the much, much more potent methane it began as.

6:34 Is that about right now? How does that work?

6:43 I don't know. Maybe he's not here right now. We'll find out, but he should be able to jump back in in a second. So are you talking literally, Dwayne, about

6:54 waste, like taking trash and turning it into natural gas? Is that what we're referring to? Yeah. Yeah.

7:04 methane has two general orions, one's thermogenic and the other's biogenic Biogenic means it's made by thermal processes that decompose larger molecules. And the biogenic means it's made by

7:18 microorganisms that are digesting other molecules and pooping it out. So this is one of the big debates about methane seen in well water. Is it biogenic, meaning it's recent and created at the

7:33 surface, or is it thermogenic, meaning it came from the hydraulic, the same reservoir that was hydraulically fracked. Okay, basically what they're doing is harnessing the process of biogenic gas.

7:44 You've seen landfills with wellheads all over them and that's what they're doing. They're collecting the natural methane decomposition products -

7:55 Okay, wow. So turning our trash into energy.

8:02 Kind of cool - The better use for it

8:07 And I'm sure there's a lot of science behind how that process actually works -

8:15 The hardest part, well, and Matt, you're gonna correct me here, but as I understand it, the hardest part is actually collecting it. 'Cause this is stuff that's normally created at a low level

8:25 over a large area, like a wastewater treatment plant or a landfill - Can you guys hear me - Yep, got you now.

8:33 It's a, the hardest part is collecting it But we. the technology to create biogas is actually really simple. You can make a biogas digester to go in your backyard and it's cleaner and better than a

8:52 composter, I think - So, yeah, so Duane, for me, once we put it into the pipeline and it gets to the station, it's all the same. So it's got the same product and I don't have to worry about any

9:06 of that, but it's about nominating that renewable aspect of it to the purchaser and that transaction and all of that. So I'm a little bit less on how it happens, but just getting it to a

9:22 transaction that's a standard fueling unit - Instantly enough, I read your article about the equivalent barrels of oil - Yeah - And we've actually incorporated that or a spreadsheet of of fueling

9:39 prices, we've got an equivalent barrel of oil now. If in case somebody ever wants it, we can throw that at the pump. So - Yeah, excellent, I love it. So we're talking about it - We've got

9:52 diesel gallons equivalent, gasoline gallon equivalents, kilograms of hydrogen, and now we've got barrels of oil. So - Very cool - Barrels and energy - Barrels and energy - Barrels and energy, the

10:05 normal historical way to compare oil and gas combined them is on an energy basis. But that, kind of distorts the picture because the price for that energy is significantly different between the

10:17 sources. So I had proposed that we use a value equivalent and just call it barrels of value rather than barrels of energy or barrels of oil equivalent.

10:29 But you know, I'm really hopeful about hydrogen. I'm hopeful hydrogen is gonna be able to scale in a way that renewable natural gas couldn't.

10:41 Yeah, I think it will. It's just going to take, you know, you've got to get the price down from 16 a gallon right now. So

10:50 that's just obviously that's not going to work.

10:54 So it's just going to take some time to happen. But I think it is. I mean, it's got the energy.

11:02 I think the market's seeing it. I do think they're going to start to see some ammonia competitors on the fuel cell market. Well, they'll actually crack ammonia on the vehicle on the fly. Yeah.

11:15 Yeah. I think you'll see that in some markets that like Australia where

11:22 they're just less concerned about the NOx emissions and stuff like that. So we'll see where that goes. But it's definitely an issue.

11:31 It's a whole lot easier to get ammonia into a car than it is hydrogen into a car. I tell people It's kind of like the the internet and then early

11:44 90s Do you remember the internet the early 90s? Oh, yeah, okay? Well, okay Well, there was there

11:59 was a time period maybe and after billboards were the main thing you know, it was it was wide open and No, it's that and you didn't know what was gonna happen. You just needed a website Yeah,

12:12 that's that's kind of where I think we are now the on those we need hydrogen. I don't know anything else But there's gonna be a future for hydrogen and you need you need to have a website It'll

12:24 evolve slowly and in phases and then fast and it's gonna be nuts, but it's great to do there And I just took place for oil and gas and that not just the midstream guys who need to downstream need to

12:36 distribute it. But there. a couple ways that we can store or generate hydrogen with oil

12:45 and gas - Carbon and sequestering is definitely, that's a huge part of that. I mean, you've got - Yeah, I figure of all the opportunities for oil and gas in the energy transition, carbon castor

12:56 and sequestration is like the first three batters.

12:60 Maybe it's only the first two and geothermal comes in, but hydrogen is maybe below that I think in terms of urgency, but it's - Yeah - It's real. It's a real opportunity for some people.

13:18 And then that's why we're focusing on the carbon expo. We don't have it, we have almost nothing on hydrogen. We have one talk on hydrogen potential from oil and gas, but

13:28 much more on other topics - So tell me, what is the intent of carbon expo? Is it? Are you focusing on? capturing the carbon, is that - The idea is to a little bit broader, Matt. What we're

13:42 trying to do is give people the knowledge, the insights, the relationships to make a business in the energy transition. So the folks will see it as an opportunity that it is rather than a threat.

13:56 You're not gonna, there's no way to fight this tide anymore. And personally, I don't think we should fight.

14:04 But that, some people think we should, but even if you think we should, we can't. And so the best you can do, the best oil and gas companies can do is lean in.

14:14 Accommodate to the world that exists and the world is going to be. We need to reduce our emissions, and that's one of our big themes. We're gonna, our products are beginning to differentiate

14:25 themselves based on their emissions profile, which is to say no longer strictly a commodity, but a differentiated product. And then after that, are entirely new lines of business. like CCS that

14:38 are available to us. Yeah. And if do you have anybody just asking, I've been researching a lot about graphene and the

14:49 I've got a concept that I can't go too much into. But if we could take methane directly and knock out the carbon into graphene immediately and then use that graphene for some, I don't even want to

15:07 say what I'm thinking right now. But do you have any interest in that market right now? Or is that something you've even talked about or heard about? I don't even have heard some talk about

15:20 graphene, particularly graphene batteries, which have enormous potential if they can overcome the technical hurdles It falls in its category of any number of other technologies that man, that's

15:33 really cool. That's really awesome if we can make it work. And it's impossible to predict who the winners are gonna be, but there are a lot of people spending a lot of money on RD on game-changing

15:44 solutions. And a bunch of those are gonna happen.

15:50 It sounds like what you need is our presentation from Greentown Labs on how to finance a climate tech project. Oh yeah, probably

16:04 They're an incubator based in Houston and Boston and they've got some really great innovative, effective concepts in their portfolio. And they're gonna talk about how to get funding to bring that

16:18 kind of game-changing high growth idea to the world Yes, and so actually I'm gonna just mark it myself here. I want to be down there March 17th, the weekend of March 17th for Aggie Baseball Reunion

16:33 thing and

16:38 You said balded in the Navy. Who know? It said that wrong. Me and my buddies from the corner are meeting at an Aggie baseball game. That's a better way to say it. Where have we stole your old

16:48 coach, TCU's old coach? I can't even pronounce his name, Schloss will be here - Oh, that hurt. That hurt - Yeah, yeah -

16:58 It's been class of '94. And TCU's hometown team, but, but ain't it's Schloss, my heart - Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's totally that way. But they start enough three and oh, first weekend. It was,

17:09 they run rules, yeah - Oh. Oh, AM did, excellent. TCU started out pretty strong, I'm told, but then they lost miserably in the last game on Sunday - Oh, it's too bad -

17:24 Guys, enough about this call. What do we think this is?

17:29 Hey, if that happens, we can talk about the Astros next and you'll be all jazzed up. Or no, it's the Red Sox. I'm sorry. I'm just kidding. I mean, anybody who's watching this video looks

17:39 behind me and it's basically a shrine to the Boston Red Sox. I love baseball and we're coming back to that time of year, right? Hope Springs eternal in February when everybody starts checking into

17:51 spring training in Florida and Arizona. So it's definitely a relevant topic for sure Um, Matt, you went to him, right?

18:02 Yeah, I graduated 98 class of 97, graduated 98. I'll see you guys. So almost cross paths.

18:14 Yep. I left in 94. I was just just going to be a nice one. So you were there in 94. So you I like to make fun of the guy, but did you know Tim and Anna?

18:28 Yep - Do you know Gary, Buffington - Not ringing a bell. I'm maybe he classes with him, but I don't remember okay - Anyway, he was there with Tim, went, started with Tim, finished after me. So

18:45 it was, that's one of the guys that, almost, anybody I ask, if they know him, they almost know, you know, it's, it's usually, it's a,

18:54 it's a, it's a, it's a positive on that, on that front. But that's funny - Sorry, didn't mean to be really, we can get back on track -

19:04 Gary Buffington, not only a national alumni,

19:08 but also tripping over the barrel alumni. How about that - No way - Go ahead Matt. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

19:20 What happened? I missed something.

19:25 Oh, it's all good. Go ahead.

19:29 No, I missed what we were talking about.

19:33 Oh, you're about to ask something. No, I'll. Yeah, that's all good. We got a little clip we can, we can cut out there, but Matt, why don't you go ahead? There's a little bit of lag on your

19:43 side, I think. So why don't you go ahead and restart whatever conversation you're about to restart?

19:49 Yeah, so tell me, what I've noticed on the hydrogen front over here in Europe, and this is a little bit different from in the US, but it seems to be all of the trade shows that they've been hosted

20:04 by, it's almost a media, the media is controlling who's hosting all of these events and they're

20:15 dominating who gets in And

20:20 So I'm just curious how for your carbon expo, is that your mechanism to, to, I guess, just generate revenue or is, is, or what's, what's your aspect? How are you going to make money on this is

20:38 what I'm trying to do. I sure wish I were making money on it, Matt. I sure wish I were. It's, I started the conference, I brainstormed, came up with it in the summer of 21. So this is a need,

20:48 the industry needs this. By the time I got it put on, we were, if not in the very first, one of the very first decarbonization conferences put it on last year. And

20:60 we said the bar really low for cost. And we gave away the event functionally, we lost a lot of

21:07 money on it. As it stands right now, we're still not trying to make money. We're trying to break even. So what that means is that although we have two days worth of content, our price is a tenth

21:18 as much as a two day live. So I got

21:24 229 and then people can come back for 60 days and watch it. So this is not intended to

21:32 be a real profit center.

21:36 Just trying to get good content to work with. Yeah. I mean, events are hard, and especially in-person events, but online events are challenging too because then you have to deal with bandwidth

21:49 issues and things like that. A couple of years ago, when I was kind of in the early stages of launching my company with Funk Futures, I decided a good way to get exposure would be to do a charity

22:01 golf event and put that together out here. We did it in Colorado and we broke even on it after the 2, 500 donation I made to the I Have a Dream Foundation of Boulder County, which was great, but

22:16 the amount of time that I spent putting into that event. and then combining the foresomes and coordinating with the golf course and dealing with complaints of people playing at a turn or taking too

22:28 long. And it was a lot, man. And so I give you endless respect and credit, Dwayne. The events game is not easy. And I know the digital logcatters have kind of leaned into this too. They've got

22:42 their Bitcoin, you know, empower event they did fuse, which is just sort of a general energy tech conference last year, but I see what it takes to put these events together and it's a lot. I

22:55 think one thing that people take for granted also is that the majority of the people sign up for these events the week of, right? So you've got this really slow trickle of people signing up and then

23:06 boom, the last week you actually get a hold of what your numbers are. So you're constantly in communication with whoever it may be to say, oh no, it's not 16. Now it's 114. Okay, it's not 114

23:18 It's a hundred twenty right so. Definitely something that you're keeping tax on - It definitely works with digital.

23:25 Is it really - No, it's a real problem. It's a real difficulty. And it is a huge logistics handle. It's a logistics are easier since I'm not dealing with a hotel, somewhat easier, different set.

23:40 But digital in particular, people will sign up late. But the great thing is people can easily sign up the morning of and still make it But it does make it harder for us to play it - It's a

23:50 good reason to

23:58 just call in and get some continuing education units on a whim. I think that's what happens. You need to take it the day off so you just go to a conference, on the digital conference - I do wish

24:12 that there was

24:15 the continuing education credits that people needed Most of my industry don't have to meet. continuing education credits -

24:24 Accountants do, right? Like you do get out on the accounting side. Yeah, exactly. On the operations, I have to be right -

24:34 So I've got, that's a little dilemma for me right now 'cause I've got a license in 34 states and they all have different requirements and some of them, they're requiring live webinars now So it's

24:50 something, yeah, it's not, it's New York and I think Ohio requires real contact hours where you can interact with the instructor and it's something like 12 hours a year, something of that effect.

25:05 But it's a problem because it's hard to find them and you gotta pay, you gotta find the right, number one, you gotta be available and you gotta have time and then you gotta be there. So it's

25:16 definitely something you could

25:19 If you can find some carbon sequestration would count towards that if we can find a way to interact. Come on, we are going to have a live QA.

25:33 Our presentations are prerecorded and that creates more flexibility for the guys who come in. We'll have a watch party. We'll say, Everybody's here. Let's go watch everything in session one. You

25:43 can chat with each other while you're watching it Then we will do a live QA in the afternoon. We'll have a session with all of our speakers on CCS. We've got several folks who have deep backgrounds

25:57 in CCS talking about projects they've worked on or how analyses they've made. Real world stuff rather than hypotheticals. You can show up for an hour and a half and ping them with questions. Yeah.

26:14 What's your credit? I have a question for you - Yeah, I'm really doing it.

26:19 Nice. Well, I have a question for both of you. I guess maybe even more specifically for Dwayne. So let's go back to AM or TCU or Oklahoma, UT Mines, you

26:31 name it, where they have petroleum engineering programs. Is there now curriculum offered for people to take carbon sequestration courses? ESG sustainability-centric classes that have just really

26:45 started to pop up over the last couple of years? Or are those still being formalized now?

26:53 The assertion, the

26:57 narrative in a lot of locations is that higher education is woke and pushing some sort of agenda. In my location, TCU, I don't see that. And that would be a place. And I really don't see it in

27:12 the oil and gas schools. So last just a few months ago at the ATC. There was a panel discussion from four major petroleum engineering departments and mostly they were digging in their heels to

27:25 resist any kind of change. But it seems to me that they're missing the boat. This is where the research money is going to be. This is where the jobs are going to be. This is what their students

27:38 need to know.

27:41 I think it's starting to work its way in sideways in a little bit But there are also industry organizations that are filling the gap. Carbon Expo is doing some of that. Saga Wisdom is putting on

27:53 some trainings that are about ESG4 oil and gas. And the people are going to find the needs or find the education or they're going to

28:10 Yeah, I mean, it's happening out there in the real world, right? So there's no reason to kind of hide people. And you know, one of the things, Dwayne, that you see you and I see eye to eye on

28:21 is that we believe oil and gas has the knowledge where with all scientific subject matter expertise to actually lead this energy transition or whatever you want to call it energy addition, right?

28:36 And that's offensive to people. And I think that that's something that that you're really trying to put forth there is you're having people from the industry. This is not government entities. This

28:48 is not people from, you know, greenwashing, woke environment, environmental groups saying, this is what needs to be done. It's execution of what is actually happening today. And that's really

29:00 what I got out of it the last time too is I don't want to hear about what people think we should do I want to hear about what's actually happening. Right? And that's the same thing with Bitcoin,

29:09 mind it - And then.

29:13 Go ahead, Roy - No, it's a great point, Jeremy. It's a great point. It has been historically, we need to do this. We need to, we're starting to see now in our content for this event, is down

29:23 to the operational level. We've gone from strategy discussion, to tactical discussion, and we're an operational discussion now. No, hands on getting stuff done

29:36 And that's really encouraging. Yeah, it's probably won't move as fast as people wanted it to, but it is gonna move and it is gonna move fast - And do you think it's mostly because the large

29:53 companies are willing to pay for it now? They recognize that there's a cost for the carbon footprint and they're just throwing money at it to get it down - I think they can't get away from it. We

30:05 see changes happening at multiple levels. The American majors have historically drug their feet. They've been the last to join, but they're actually doing a good deal now.

30:16 Standing up real efforts in CCS in particular. But the pressure from financial markets across the board and even indirectly. So the banks, insurance companies, and other investors are wanting to

30:32 know what your situation is.

30:37 And that's bringing it home. But it's easy to see that it needs to be done. There's no excuse, there's no reason, no benefit from releasing our methane into the air. It's just real hard to argue

30:52 that we shouldn't do that. Or we should do that, we should release it.

30:58 But there's this, it's an ecosystem of players. We have to have finance involved, we have the companies involved, we have to have service companies, we have to have accounting issues. And all of

31:12 those parts are building up and becoming available. So you go to a conference now and you can find plenty of vendors who will go check your site for methane emissions. It didn't exist in the same

31:24 way three years ago. And so it's they are lowering the threshold to check for emissions. And that makes it more accessible.

31:37 So that's - What I think we're going to see in Dwayne, I saw you speak eloquently at the PPDM event in Oklahoma City back in December. And one red flag really went off for me as you were discussing

31:52 all this. And that's the larger operators who inherently have a lower lifting cost. right, what it costs to actually get oil or natural gas out of the ground, have an advantage in this whole game

32:09 in that because they're so profitable and operating their businesses at scale, even with somewhat lower oil and natural gas commodity prices, they have the ability to invest in carbon sequestration

32:23 and emissions reduction centric solutions. But what about the smaller operator that doesn't have the ability to operate at scale? Are we potentially hedging into an area where the smaller operator

32:36 will become obsolete because it's just simply too expensive for them to operate and also bring some of these sustainable solutions into their fault?

32:49 So there are two questions there. I think Jeremy, the first is the livelihoods of the smaller operators And that is standalone life or death issue. The population of independent producers is in

33:04 fact declining, but the volumes that they affect, that they control are declining and the opportunities that they have to rehabilitate, to replenish or to grow, their production is also

33:17 diminishing. The wells that they operate are mostly very, very old.

33:23 When those are depleted, they don't have the same opportunities We're not going to find any more onondaga, not to speak of. We're not going to find any more wood-buying fields or rodesa or

33:38 Ellenburk. We've functionally found all those.

33:45 The second question, and there's a significant question of whether or not those guys can wind up their business in a profitable, honorable way, whether they can get their wells plugged and go on

33:56 The other question is whether or not they. Folks can bring the capital necessary for a new kind of business

34:04 There it certainly does take a good deal of money in particular CCS project very expensive

34:12 There are companies coming into the space to finance them

34:18 And I believe the first projects are gonna have to be larger. I also believe That will be able to do smaller and smaller projects As we figured out and become efficient at it We'll be better able as

34:34 we get the systems working will be better able to do smaller projects so you could you might find a Single gas plant or a couple gas plants or a single power plant single cement plant and go to that

34:45 sink cement plant and say hey look Let's put CCS on and we can inject it sequester it right here a mile away and And that kind of project, once the

34:58 skills and systems are established, that kind of project, I think becomes viable and accessible to more people.

35:06 It's been a long time since the industry could drill a well for half a million dollars.

35:13 We're already at the point where anybody wanting to develop anything needs 50 or 100 million. You can't do hardly anything without that. I think we can get back to that threshold with

35:27 CCS. I don't see it in the next couple of years, but I do think that'll be possible. So the idea of the traditional wildcatters now shifting, the wildcatting quote unquote, is going to take in

35:37 sustainable, renewable projects, because we've effectively found all of the places where we could execute and pull hydrocarbons out of the ground, right? The decline curves are fairly steep.

35:50 We've probably hit street oil in North America. Yeah, North America, for sure. Maybe offshore is different. Sorry. They weren't the majority.

36:00 There are lots of places in the OPEC with much, much lower finding and development costs, much, much lower lifting costs. And those guys are structurally advantaged. They're the ones that are

36:11 able to meet new supply needs. We haven't found a new shale place since 2014 And the tier one acreage is majority drilled in all three major oil plays and large majority of Bakken and Igliford top

36:31 tier acreage is drilled. We're already in the process of downgrading. That whether we maintain peak or not is a function of how fast we drill. But that peak is really sensitive And we scale back

36:46 and we'll see it fall like it did over COVID. It felt absurdly like like 20 in eight months or something during COVID.

36:58 And that's the kind of treadmill we're on. And we'll cross that threshold again -

37:06 What are you seeing from a worldwide perspective, how is it different overseas as opposed to in the US - Well, so the US was one of the early leaders,

37:19 right? 19th century, we were already a global powerhouse of oil production. The global epicenter of oil production in the 1890s was Ohio - Yeah - Sure - So we started early and then we peaked. We

37:36 were the first country to peak its conventional production. But Russia, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, UAE are all still increasing their production and they haven't started to drill for shells yet.

37:51 And they have source rock just like we have source rock - Yeah.

37:57 We started first, got a lot of benefit out of it, but we're also gonna be the first to shut down. And then those guys with much lower cost, fresher

38:07 inventories of acreage will make the new supply -

38:14 Dwayne doom and gloom purpose everybody, here he is giving us a dose of reality - I'm gonna say something

38:24 I think the US has something like 300 years worth of natural gas. So, we still have all of that - Yeah, it's a first is a really solid point that natural gas is a different animal than oil. Oil is

38:41 explored for separately, easier to account for. It's very easy to see the peak. We don't, natural gas is handled differently. It's a different history of record keeping and of production, but

38:52 also larger supply Now the issue is that we're facing now is at what cost, at what value. But the outlook for natural gas in general, all globally and in the US is more positive. It has the upper

39:09 legs.

39:11 And probably more volatile too -

39:14 Yeah, but especially - So see,

39:18 sorry, go ahead - No, I just, I have to - You got your finger up, sorry - I'll be ready - No, I have to cut it 'cause I have to run. I feel like the conversation is just now getting really

39:26 interesting. But, Duane, where, and we don't wanna give away all the secrets to the Carbon Expo either. Duane, where can people find, is there a website somewhere people can go to sign up for

39:37 the Carbon Expo -

39:41 CarbonExpous, shows all the people speaking has a link to sign up. We're hosting it through a platform called, what's called Socio, now it's WebEx Advanced. Custom built for virtual conferences,

39:54 and they'll actually handle the registration. But actually, if you want to see it, there is a video posted on our website under the exhibit sponsor tour. You can see what it looks like and then

40:07 follow that link in the upper right hand corner to register.

40:11 Okay. What are the dates ago? March 3 is the live event. So we'll have the live presentation in the morning, live QA in the afternoon And we'll also have some live breakouts over lunch and in the

40:26 afternoon where you can meet together by interest or by area to chat with folks in real time. And then the recordings of the content will be available after that. All right. Awesome. So there'll

40:41 be a little breakout rooms where we'll talk live. Okay. And you can go to the room on hydrogens or you can go to the room on Texas We actually have a route. We turned off the room on London on

40:53 Europe. We don't We don't have that one act yet, but if you want it, we'll turn it on for you.

40:59 So ladies and gentlemen, sign up for the carbon expo. It's fantastic. I went last year and learned a lot. Uh, great to hear about. Actually, you should, by the way, I'm gonna sign up

41:10 immediately after. There we go. There we go. That website again is

41:17 wwwcarbon

41:21 expous wwwcarbon expouswearerunningoutofoil. Okay, ladies and gentlemen, thank you.