What The Funk?

0:00 Here we have Dwayne purpose big D from the big deal, though, he might get offended because these four work people on Dallas. This is like a rivalry. Whereas, you know, if you're from anywhere

0:10 else in the country, you're like, come on. I don't, I don't think the rest of the country even knows that there's any kind of difference between Dallas and Fort Worth. I didn't until I first went

0:19 to Dallas and someone's like, yeah, I live in Fort Worth. I'm like, oh, okay. So Dallas. They're like, no, no, I can tell you the difference. I can tell you the Fort Worth is where the West

0:27 begins and Dallas is where the East Peter's out. I could see that, actually. That's what I need. That's perfectly neat. Yeah. So we always talk about our favorite or oil and gas cities to travel

0:37 to, Jeremy. And Fort Worth doesn't always register as an oil and gas town, but it very much, it is. I've always loved traveling there. And I think it's because I'm more Fort Worth than I am,

0:49 Dallas. And, you know, just a little bit more casual I've always thought of Dallas as having a few more social rules like we can't go to that restaurant because we're not dressed right or we

1:02 haven't done our hair just right. Whereas Fort Worth, you can have a guy sit in a tuxedo sitting next to a guy with cut off shorts, right? See, this is why I love how we just jumped right into

1:13 this because for me, it's actually the opposite. Since I live in Colorado and it's all informalities and blue-haired waitress with nose rings and tattoos, that's kind of Fort Worth, right? So for

1:25 me, I like Dallas when I go down there because it's like, oh, I have to be a little bit more dressed up here and fancy. But now Fort Worth seems like kind of fun. So Dwayne, am I off on that or

1:35 is that your take? No, that's pretty close, Tim. I'll tell you though, the Fort Worth is evolving some. In the last 10 or

1:44 15 years, there's been a lot of a lot more wealth it seems in Fort Worth and we'll see you in more of the North Dallas style in West Fort Worth now. And what do you attribute that to? Is it just -

1:60 Frankly, I attribute it to the Barnet Shell and TCU. I don't know, I'm just pure speculation, but - Okay. I'll buy the Barnet Shell thing. I'll buy that a lot. I can't give much credit to

2:10 anything TCU. I know you're an adjunct professor there, but we'll go ahead and -

2:17 Well, they got a really good job of promoting themselves. Yeah. And that's part of their image The TCU image is a lot like the SMU image. That's how they - 100. Yeah. Plus cool. I mean, it's

2:35 obviously one of the more expensive choices you can make as a student going to.

2:45 All right, so, Dwayne is an adjunct professor at TCU.

2:50 Well, what do you do there? Who the hell are you, man? Who the hell is this on our podcast? Now, before we jump into that, Dwayne, I do want to get into your whole backstory and hear about

3:00 your young professorship and all the other good stuff. Your origin story? Your origin story. But Tim, when, what's in the solo code? Just kidding. But when Tim and I first sat down and said,

3:11 we're doing a podcast, we each wrote down maybe like five or so names and were like, that's all we got. We got enough for 10 episodes. I don't know what to do. Well, the rest we were gonna have

3:21 to carry with our beautiful conversations, right? Here we are close to 70 episodes, and Dwayne Purvis is one of those guys, Tim. He was one of the original names you came up with. But for some

3:32 reason, it just took till now. So I'm personally excited about today to hear the story. You guys are yucking it up. Well, I'm frustrated reading emails. So I want to hear who is this man,

3:41 Dwayne Purvis? So let me just tell you why. I always wanted Dwayne. All right, so first we were classmates. I was a couple of years ahead of him in school and I got to know him a little bit And,

3:52 you know, I've always. given advice to people when they're going off to college, hang out with people smarter than you. Because, you know, good habits rub off. Everyone wants no while they'll

4:03 teach you something. I like to think I taught other people some things. Well, Dwayne, one of those guys, now he was a couple of years behind me, so I'd already had all the classes that he had,

4:12 but I always recognize that this guy's bright. He knows a lot of stuff, and more importantly, he is so interested in actual learning stuff instead of just getting the grade and kind of moving on,

4:23 which is might give you an indication of what I

4:30 was doing. But it was always so bright. And then when we reconnected after school, I think probably 10, 15 years later, and I'm probably trying to sell him something, I don't know.

4:39 You can pretty much bring up any technical reservoir engineering topic, and he's got an opinion, and he'll correct your incorrect assumptions, and it's so well thought out. I mean, the guy's

4:50 thinking about stuff all the time, We can come up bring them on and just start throwing topics at him and he will have a learned opinion about that topic anyway so I'm embarrassing him now but I

5:01 Dunno the Duane let this let's go back to your origin story to your what led you to an M the oil and gas industry how did you how did you Get here My Dad was a preacher so it was natural really that

5:16 My Dad is a preacher he retired last year after fifty one years in the ministry wow right he started when he was in college he was he'd drive an hour on Sunday morning to preach a little country

5:30 church and the only pay he got was a home cooked Sunday lunch the fried chicken on Sunday afternoon right in central Texas there so you know I went to a public high school public five a my Dad's a

5:45 good job of Fort Worth and I transferred to a Swanky private school here country day

5:53 And that was a hard shift. But my dad's best friend, at the time, turned out to be the president of Colley Gillespie and Associates. Okay. Who you may know is one of the - Did Dr. Strickland?

6:07 Dr. Strickland. Okay. So I'm trying to figure out what to do going off to college and I don't know. So he shows me what he does. And I feel that's pretty good. It's pretty interesting, let's

6:17 try that. And they gave me a nice scholarship. They were trying to rebuild the department after the '86 crash I thought, I'll start there and we'll see what happens. Then I graduated there. But I

6:28 just never found anything I liked any better. But I tell you what, I really, really love petroleum engineering at this point and the industry. And what's interesting, I'm gonna go back to, the

6:39 reason I chose petroleum engineering was in fact those scholarships. I had no intent at all of going into petroleum engineering, but I knew I didn't want to be aerospace anymore. So I said, well,

6:50 I'll go take some money from the Patrol Engineering Department for a year. and then switch over to mechanical or civil or what was the other thing I wanted to go do. 20 years later. Yeah, here I

6:59 am. What was it, Dr. Herbert? Dr, I think it was Dr. Herbert. They brought out of retirement, just recruit students to give them money. Yeah, that's, I mean, they were giving money, but

7:11 basically I tell the joke, they were giving money away to people who took the SAT. Didn't matter what score you got. You took it - That's not entirely wrong. Come on in He gave away 200

7:20 scholarships to freshmen and 60 of them graduate.

7:28 He was just giving money away to anybody close, but I imagine that, fully half of them, like you and me, weren't ever planning on doing it beforehand. Yeah. It's crazy because, and remember,

7:40 my class was the, I think we graduate, we'd probably had 25 in the class of '92, and I think your class was the first big one where 200 those were there that started and 60 or so that graduated.

7:53 And we call that big then now 200 is the, you know, what is it now at AM, they're trying to graduate 200 a year, 200 petroleum engineers. That's right. That's cool. How does that stack up to

8:07 the other engineering, like at an engineering school like that? How does that stack up to chemis, mechanical engineers,

8:15 a lot smaller. There's a lot the same scale Yeah, you got to add a zero on all of that. Ah, gotcha. Yeah. So I tell you what, there are 12 petroleum engineering programs in the country. Mines,

8:30 AM,

8:32 Montana, tech, Texas, Texas, Texas, tech. Yep. Yeah.

8:39 Pinch, do you Marietta, Marietta, that's the oldest dress Jeremy. I'm good at things that don't apply to anything else in sort of the rest of the world. No, there's Louisiana. Oh, she's going

8:53 to state the way is in a state for sure. Yeah, I think there's a Oklahoma. Oh, yeah. You

9:01 know, it's a California Santa Barbara. Oh, really? Oh, I want to know what Tim's like. Oh, I want to go on there or chalk. Yeah, I think it's Santa Barbara. You and you have H U of H. OK,

9:13 yes, they do now. That's right. Yeah, Boulder, Boulder by the beach out in Santa Barbara. So no, that's that's awesome And I guess it makes sense because there's just not that many, you know,

9:24 brand new entry level type jobs for petroleum engineers these days. So I'm going to tell you my doctor Strickland story. Since you brought up that you kind of brought the name I filled in the blank.

9:33 But so and I didn't realize I was competing with you on this, by the way. And since you I didn't realize you had such an inn with Coli Gillespie, but I was I did not have a job when I graduated.

9:44 So I came back up to AM. I don't know to go to a to go to some event or something and I went up and. and Miss pop the Secretary up there the Pajama Department said no a Doctor Strickland's interview

9:59 and the day for for incoming at John Engineers I said I'll shoot I need to be in on that side basic barnstormed and interrupted his launch and said hey look I'm sorry Here's My Resume I didn't know

10:11 you were here I need an interview and so I get the interview and we talk and he was impressed with my brashness not enough to actually hire me but you know and then later they later that next Semester

10:22 I see that the that the dwayne here is actually taken the position with colleague gillespie like man so so is actually a year later I did something really weird I graduated walked the stage in ninety

10:34 four and then I went to live in Denmark for a year study abroad and then which work wow Yes nice what's that like what what and why why I wanted the cultural experience on the Broaden my horizons. So

10:52 that sounds really cliche. But I was just really curious, really interested to see more about how they live. And a friend of mine from Denmark, one of the other students went from there to live in

11:04 Korea. And he said something I think really insightful. He said cultures are like personalities. Some you get along with and some you don't. I just really drive with the Northern European, um,

11:17 Danish culture just really loved it. Really. So that is very people up there.

11:25 Not quite right accent, but yes. But anyways, there was like a Scandinavian or maybe a Denmark couple in my small town in New Hampshire. No way. Yeah. Yeah. Just just one. And he set up his

11:35 whole estate. I mean, I say estate, but up there, real estate is not worth anything. He set up this whole kind of area and it just felt European and he had all these different kind of flags up.

11:44 And it just sort of captured that essence. But I guess I did a terrible job imitating his wife's voice. Anyways

11:54 is not a master of accents. He tries all the time. He's not a match. Actually, that's not what I've been told by other people. I think it's part of the reason why Colin and Jake kept telling me

12:02 to come on this podcast because I do two good accents. One of them's Boston kid and you know that. Yeah. Yeah. I know that. And the other one's just generic southern guy.

12:14 Maybe that's maybe ticks

12:17 maybe I think that's the key is your generic southern guy. So any time anybody comes anywhere in the south, he hits the same accent. But half my relationships are from people from the northeast.

12:26 So to them, it all they don't get it. All that's true to you. They've got that Arkansas draw and maybe that's a little slower. But in Texas, it's a little bit quicker. We got cities nearby.

12:37 And there you go. I'm on stage. I want to go back to something. I want to go back to something doing that really resonated with me. I got stuck on it. Yeah. Also, you guys are talking about AM.

12:48 I had no idea what you're talking about. I was like, I'm sorry. whatever, your father, 51 years was a preacher man and traveled an hour, probably around the same years where my grandfather was a

13:01 rabbi in New Jersey who did the opposite. So because of the way that the Sabbath works for Jews, the more conservative they are, they don't drive. So we had to live within walking distance, but

13:12 the walking distance sometimes would vary, right? So it's still sort of the same idea that you couldn't live right there, because that's threading the needle So maybe, you know, it was 45 minute

13:21 walk, 30 minute walk, maybe it was icy and snowy, right? In your dad's case, it was different. So I was just thinking about that corollary. Yeah, that's neat, I love it. Pretty cool, right?

13:29 But like you said, that's a passion project then, right? You're turning down other financial opportunities to do something you're passionate about. Yeah. Yeah, he never gets drawn into it. Was

13:42 that something that, you know, he tried to draw you into, or did that ever cross your mind and go to the same thing? No, just the opposite, he said don't you dare do it.

13:52 Yeah is and I understand why there's and

13:58 it's a really different kind of environment business right and he recognized that his there's a lot of cost involved in it Yeah interesting Yeah that's I mean I I I can't imagine I mean I had a

14:14 conversation with my Minister wants and he said Yeah well we can't go to the grocery store here near the church or any grocery store within three miles of the church because you can't shop there

14:25 because somebody is coming down the church and wants to tell you gossip or you know hey did you hear about this person you really cannot get through everything you've got to you've got to venture away

14:38 some accept it might be a great thing that your dad had to drive an hour to the church because then he was aware he was away from it from his normal daily life but Yeah I can't imagine just your daily

14:48 life be outside of the church how how difficult that would be, because you're being pulled a lot of different ways. Yeah, and you're always often dealing with, what you are dealing with is a

15:00 volunteer organization, and a lot of times you're dealing with people with a lot of needs. It's kind of the point, right? And that can be very taxing, and it can make a lot of problems. It's the

15:14 nature of the church to be a hospital

15:18 Right, but it can be more like an ER. Yeah, no, I understood, understood. So I want to keep this story going. So we got to Denmark, right? Or did you come back to Texas and what was next? I

15:31 did, I came back to Texas. I actually had a failed interview with McKinsey in London.

15:38 And then I came back and went to work for Coli Gillespie. In fact, he also hired at the same time, Jeff Hudson from my class Oh, how about that? Yeah, and Jeff, Jeff. uh, did the, um,

15:51 person variance strength. He came up several times. He showed up in the front lobby and that just like you almost, I almost worked for you. He didn't work for it. Yeah. I mean, it didn't help

16:02 that I was in a T-shirt and shorts when I bar and store in the interview, I mean, had I been really prepared, but, but you know, um, you know, and Jeff, by the way, Jeff Hudson, name drop is

16:11 now at pioneer natural resources. So thanks for the referral in there, Tim. I appreciate that. Yeah. There you go

16:20 All right. So Colley Gillespie, this is a, I guess I'm going to call it a reserve's house or a consulting company really for, uh, you know, third party reserves, uh, you know, a pioneer light

16:32 company might use Colley to, uh, you know, backstop their reserves for reporting to the, to the, uh, government. Is that basically right? That's basically right. They're controlling

16:43 engineering consulting companies come in three basic flavors, resident of our reserve reports, field studies, and litigation support and at the time Holly Gillespie did mostly reserve reports but a

16:56 good deal of field studies was with a litigation support as well but now they they do third party reserves for big names like Concho is one of their when their clients they sign off on all reserves

17:08 for concho for violent Yeah and it's a big Deal So I just want to chime in on this I am not the engineer in the room but I do know that it's very important to submit at the correct data that you are

17:20 forecasting for reserves to the government otherwise you're facing pretty significant fines and I remember actually speaking to companies that had to deal with that and and nothing gets the attention

17:29 of this the sea levels in the board quicker than a six figure fine over submitting your the wrong data for reserves Oh Yeah you get a comment letter from the SCC and that's bad news your investors

17:41 don't like that on the days of Socks I guess it's it's actually criminally liable as well live Practical I don't know I see you see why right like just from a very rudimentary level It's well. How

17:55 much money do you have in your bank got this much? Okay, well, yeah, if you're leveraging that to get more, you know, and you're lying. There's problems there. Well, you know, one of the the

18:07 great But the thing that made me stick with with petroleum engineering Was you know, you could see this from our building you could see the civil engineering lab and there they've got little slabs of

18:19 concrete And they've got vices and they're just breaking concrete and they're measuring when the concrete breaks And if you add this fiber, when does it break great? Yeah, but these are all things

18:27 you can actually pick up and measure and pound on Especially when it comes to reservoir engineering. Yeah, I can know Two feet away from the well with a pretty high degree of confidence exactly

18:39 what's there and how it's gonna react to whatever stimulus that we give to it 100 yards away from the well, I have no idea. I mean, I've got a pretty good idea am I Guess Maybe as good as Duane's

18:50 or better yet so you've got to Estimate Reserves

18:56 I promise numbers I promise that we're going to delivered this quantity of oil in the next ten years you're the weatherman and so I mean and you know and I'll I'll put words in in Duane's mouth but

19:10 you know You're wrong Okay You know it's wrong the number you Give is wrong now you know you're not one hundred percent accurate that doesn't necessarily mean okay wrong okay but so how close to one

19:22 hundred per cent are you tell me exactly and so that's the kind of that that's why you need the reserves house to add that credibility to what we think this is what the conservative concert the

19:37 reserves estimators think yep in theory this is just like an auditor for your financial statements because like you said jeremy the reserves are the largest asset but we're taking inventory of

19:50 something that's a mile away from us underneath rock. And it's finite, but it's also, as Tim explained, a few weeks ago, isn't completely finite because new techniques could emerge. So how

20:00 exactly do you forecast? And that's why you have P10s and P8s. So you bring in an independent third party who's supposed to be just the cold hard facts. What's this really gonna do? And that's one

20:13 of the things that Coligalese does and does well And I was there for six years and I did some reserve reports but really what I enjoyed with the field studies and the litigation support.

20:25 And then

20:27 I'm gonna prod them with the next step. So basically at some point you and Dr. Shricklin say, hey, we'd like to do our own thing. Well, just for good, put a pin in that real quick. I've heard

20:40 things around reserve season can get really crazy, really busy at Colley Gillespie. Almost dizzying, you know what I mean? We get to listen to your story sorry this is the the chairman Emeritus of

20:53 writer Scott which is another company there are there yep the largest or the second largest and have US having drinks with him once and he explaining to me is when we hire a new engineer we tell them

21:06 they can have off either Christmas morning or Christmas evening they get to choose what he says about more engineer you should have been being Jewish he's oK with car I love Christmas people like

21:23 America out that's right you're not celebrate oH no no no I love Christmas I have no obligations I can order order eat Chinese food watch all the movies all day no no one's checking their phones are

21:35 all with their families right now I love Crichton Give me some work on Christmas sounds good whether it is a surface or famine thing or that they also have some real downtime some real loose relaxing

21:46 times other parts of the year. But it is the people who do reserve reports are just like tax professionals or auditors. There's a very hard deadline. You've got to do most of the years worth of

22:01 work.

22:03 So you go from Colley Gillespie and you form the Strickland group with Dr. Strickland. And you guys do kind of more of the same, but I think it's a little bit more field study, more that kind of

22:15 work, maybe some acquisition support, things like that. Yeah, we did a lot of litigation support. So litigation support is really reserved in economics and field studies under cross-examination.

22:26 Everything that you produce has to be to the nines because somebody else with a PhD is gonna try to deconstruct it and find every screw that you've made wrong. Every place you fouled it up. Right.

22:39 Yeah, yeah. And so that was a lot of fun. A lot of fun, we got to work on some really neat, interesting projects. And so

22:53 you are, basically you served as an expert witness or evaluator for expert witnesses for quite a number of years, right? Yep. And you still looking out for fraud. I mean, it's the same sort of

22:59 principles, it's neat, right? I think it's, yeah, that's actually passionate for you because you've been trained in this area and you know when something seems fishy and you know what those

23:08 things are to look for, right? And it's a little less linear slightly than accounting, right, 'cause there's just more creativity to it, I think. Yeah, and there are, as Tim says, more

23:21 uncertainties. We can say this is the most probable answer, but this answer is just about as probable and that one is, yeah, it's equivalent as well. Yeah, it's a work in progress. Yes, we

23:33 have three possible answers. All three could be true.

23:38 This one over here that you chose, however, not true. Lies And that's what often happens. litigation supports kind of a weird game. You can get,

23:51 you can get people who are really, they're more as advocates. And some people who are more there as professional, actual doing their, for saying their own real opinions. So there were plenty of

24:02 times I'd deconstruct an expert report that was fragile. And I'd turn one knob, and then I'd turn another knob and another knob, and all of a sudden the value would implode by 90 Wow. Yeah,

24:15 they're not in common, not in common. So good. I'll tell you one more step. So now you've, you know, the Strickland Group, I guess you moved on and you're now a Duane Purvis consulting engineer,

24:29 stood up your own company. Is it the same type of stuff or is it how is it different from what you did at the Strickland Group? Well, thanks for asking. Yes and no, it's similar and it's also

24:39 different. I took several years to work for a producer. here in town as a reservoir engineering manager and that was really exciting I love getting to work with the of much young engineers we had

24:51 eleven or twelve plays depending on how you wanted to count and I was responsible for the reservoir engineering on six or seven teams really enjoyed that but when I went to start my own I don't have a

25:05 PHD and I was part of the Reason I left was I was really really sick of litigation support and if it pays well then interesting problems and I do like the the eye aspect of trying to do the right

25:18 thing but the last couple of projects I did just wore me out

25:25 so I went back to consulting which I knew but most of what I've been doing now is field studies in reserves and economics separately a separate from litigation support mostly and he focused on some

25:39 you know i guess smaller operators mid size or That kind of thing, okay. Yep, yep, so if you need a reserve report, mostly you need a name that's recognized. A colleague, Alesby, writer,

25:52 Scott, and Edlin Sewell, that their reputation is their primary asset. You can show up with a Edlin Sewell report and somebody say, Oh. But no, I don't have that kind of imprimatur.

26:07 So most of what I do is help people when they're trying to make decisions, figure things out for themselves. And mostly I work for people who are too small to have their own staff. And every once

26:19 in a while, I'll work with somebody who's got an engineer or two and they need some additional help. But most of my clients are right now on the smaller side. This is incredibly common right now,

26:30 Tim. I've brought this up a few times. I think it's part of why my business is gaining some traction. It's part of why I'm seeing this in a pervasive manner. The big companies had to slash

26:40 headcount and then look to bring in. Expert SMB level resources that are not employees but the little Guys were already in a tough spot because they probably didn't have those people to begin with

26:51 prayed so somebody with your skillset I can only imagine is you're sort of that layer of insurance before they go to the Colleague Gillespie's or whoever it may say hey this is terrible now you're

27:04 going to get hit with a big bell from Us or you're going to get a hit up from a big bell by the government yet none of that is part of what I do have several times help people do their as he reads the

27:14 reports or or go and get something ready to take to somebody else but also people figure out new plays and you know the the the strong play on the eastern shelf yes okay the the originator of that

27:27 play wrought it to me about four years ago five years ago and wonder if they could make a well and we were able to show them how it wasn't immoral it wasn't a clay ridge impossible to Frack limestone

27:42 what it was looking that way because of uranium radio activity, and it was actually a solid play. So they were trying to decide how to spend money. They were oil, you know, second generation oil

27:53 men, but not reservoir engineers.

27:56 And I on my green light and field study, they did the project, raised money and are doing really well. So wait, in the, you're looking at the logs, you're looking at the logs and saying, well,

28:10 the reason your log is not is showing you this is because of the uranium. Yeah. So wow. I didn't know this part of the backstory of that play. This leads to a lot of questions for me. So, so for

28:22 you guys, as engineers, yes, but as reservoir petroleum engineers,

28:30 what happens when you go to someplace where you think you're finding oil, but all of a sudden you find another precious metal or product helium or something else, What do you do do you bring it a

28:40 different kind of engineer to Validate it like you tell the oil company like this happens it hardly know that if you have a really really rich helium in the in the natural gas is like four percent

28:56 okay Ragged maybe really really rich would be five or six percent but it very uncommon for natural for Helium to occur and notwithstanding the the first chapter of McCain's book on fluids and we have

29:09 no information about rare Earth minerals and are produced waters so it just doesn't happen we've we find oil or we find gas very rarely occasionally we'll find pure C O two and and very rarely have a

29:22 sliver of helium but so just the other day I'm talking to somebody in Calgary that said oh what what crescent point has they want their big value prop is they've got all this these it's it's a

29:34 minerals rich area not necessarily for oil and gas and sketch one right but there are precious metals and things like that there. Yeah. But so what does an oil company then do, right? How do they,

29:44 how do they make it? No, this has to do with the mineral ownership in Canada. They, a lot of the land in, in Canada is owned by private individuals in this, in the

29:57 same kind of land grant scenario that created Union Pacific resources. Okay. In the

30:06 1860s, they were given properties in a checkerboard fashion for development. And then that has become a long-term source of natural resource mining and production. So it's not because it's coming

30:20 out of the oil and gas, it's because it's coming out of the same land. That's it, right. But do these companies know how to monetize that? Or do they want to monetize that? Like what do you do,

30:31 I guess? Yeah. In the US, we don't have that problem because our. Mineral leases are separate from our surface leases are separate from our air leases at so although the oil and gas leases we

30:43 signed the U S will explicitly exclude minerals coal anything in the surface

30:50 now go Nah I Dunno I just you hear something on a call and you're like wait a second these guys really smart in this area asked questions yeah but I think I I think you know I mean the guys who are

31:02 bringing 'Em and I I'll let's just say they do discover Helium in a reservoir you know up dip or you know as an arbitrary thing if it's rich enough and they can make money on it they're going to

31:15 figure out how to produce it I mean I did it is fundamentally yeah the same physical thing that you're trying to do to get that out of the ground Helium especially now I don't think I trying to gold

31:29 mine minerals mind you Uranium for instance in

31:36 You know five thousand to six thousand foot deep well yeah that's that's not happening alright alright so so to paraphrase in a in a slightly different accent it would be the moment we're good at

31:48 extraction okay you don't need to keep asking questions we will extract it if it's there

31:55 they figure out a way to sell if they could figure out a way to sell helium they'll do it oh yeah it was fantastic because it last I heard it was like two hundred dollars in MCF

32:06 that's right at least a couple of percent and in his bucks up Yeah there you go start a helium company alright so one of the things that dwayne that really drew me to you I want to I want to bring

32:21 Duane on is is your Jeremy and I were Yeah we're trying to promote our podcast on Linkedin and all that but im on one of the things that you do and do very well and you're not prolific you're no D R W

32:34 you know throwing Stuff at every era nobody let's be honest you're at tim what are you what do you know what I'm saying is that Dwayne is that guy

32:45 he had a good run they're not the twenty seven Yankees okay it's not like that one up but what Wayne has done as he puts out really compelling content technical oil and gas content and he gets he gets

33:01 some run on some of them i guess some of them maybe don't do so well but and then he compounds out he goes to spe luncheons and talks about these topics and there's just that the range of stuff that

33:13 you put out and comment on and go speak on is is fascinating to me that and you speak with a certain amount of expertise that well thought out energy transition E S G I don't know that I've seen you

33:29 talk about bitcoin mining or anything like that yet but Yeah no not yet But the most recent one, and it was a pet peeve of mine when I was coming up in the industry, which was BOE. I remember if

33:42 you

33:47 use BOE, you had to define it. Am I using the six to one ratio or a 10 to one ratio? Or perhaps even the 21 ratio. So sometimes you would see in the annual report, if they're quoting or the

33:58 quarterly report, they're quoting BOE, I had to quickly go find, are they doing six to one or 10 to one? Because there was no, I guess, no SEC rule at the time on what is BOE. Okay, there's

34:11 still it. So then what? So then you have to do a conversion or something to figure out that both. I mean, I guess there were two arguments. You could convert based off of energy content and say,

34:22 okay, how many thousands of cubic feet of gas is same energy content as one

34:30 barrel of oil? and say that's how you do your conversion. you could base it on the value of the gas and so there was A I mean there was always a is attend to one six to one twenty I think what we

34:42 settled on twenty ten two one is kind of the defender standard is that right twenty six one sixty one and then the one tin the one n dissolve a long time ago but you're either in the nineties and

34:54 early two thousands that was the common alternative Yeah sorry alright so basically one of his papers he puts out I call it a paper is just a should we rename this thing is it is B O E really the

35:06 right name and and this is been fashioned to watch the comments and all the people kind of piling on or you want to go through that a little bit blind Yeah sure so look we have a difficulty in the oil

35:18 and gas are really different ones liquid once he cats Yeah just gets mushed in together if you've got a well that was a lot of oil and a little gas or a little gas and a lot of oil so how do you

35:31 compare those and then it gets more complicated when you add in ingles which are kind of in the middle but they all three have substantially different values so rather than try to compare on what is

35:43 now become commonly three dimensions between wells we try to normalize it and condense it down to a single number barrels of oil equivalent while the the energy equivalence is exactly what we were

35:56 taught to use and remember that of the nine max for natural gas didn't exist until nineteen ninety and it was regulated into the early eighties so that the price of coils wasn't really a thing when we

36:10 came out and I will I start work ninety five you are several years ahead a couple years ahead of me is very old very oldest what you are right Yeah it's not that long ago or so my son fifteen years is

36:23 not what it used to be

36:26 yeah when you when you when you've lived a lot more years than your son has Yeah, that's right, that's right. But we, at that time, there wasn't all that big a difference between the energy

36:38 equivalent to the price equivalents. It was, it moved around, it was often closer to 10 to one for price equivalents, but the two products have really separated. There was a point in time when

36:49 there were more generally used and you, we burned oil in that and power plants up until the mid '80s. Oh, yeah, I guess we were phasing out in that time period And so there was a swap out. And so

37:02 energy was a kind of sensible thing and maybe the root value is the energy and it will revert to that. But that is so far from true now. And I got tired of seeing investor presentations brag about

37:17 their BOE when they're high gas wells or lots of NGLs. And this is not at all the same kind of cash flow as a black oil, as a low gas, well. So I proposed it you know people have been doing this

37:34 on the side or always talk publicly about the six to one or five point seven one but then privately they'll often do a a twenty to one so I I wrote this up and showed how the errors would look based

37:48 on price equivalence was a good twenty years of history how far off is it I suggested we do twenty to one for gas three to one for ingles and of course one the one for oil

37:58 and we get some we got some good traction on that I propose calling it barrel of value I like that as opposed to Barrel Vintage I that's the one they they sh seen the most comments on was yet the B O

38:11 V makes more sense based on what the conversion were doing and you know Ben B O E this is really this is good stuff cause cause I can completely relate to this and and understand because I actually

38:25 look through the thread because it didn't happen that long ago then teams like come on it's time to get this guy on Let's do it But I just, even not being a scientist engineer, reading through it,

38:35 I'm like, wow, like if you're gonna make this complicated for engineers, how the hell is that supposed to be easy for everyone else? Well, you think of the investor trying to understand, trying

38:46 to understand BOE

38:50 and look at, if you're trying to compare Southwestern, which is largely dry gas until very, very recently, to a denbury resources And they'll be quoting BOE, I guess probably Southwestern even

39:04 uses MCFE rather than BOE in their reports. And trying to compare these two companies and you're thinking barrels, and you're thinking, what, what are we today, 73 a barrel? Are we really? Holy

39:18 crap. So we're talking about barrels at73 and you see BOE, but you're not right. If you're using that BOE number to kind of equivalent to how much money Southwestern is going to be bringing in.

39:30 that makes sense yes exactly the problem that I was jabbed with in it everybody knows it's a problem we just Ignore it well if we can all agree then we can have something better the time to act for

39:41 the FCC to adopt that or something you know I don't think so the FCC requires reporting and it has to be accurate but they don't require any sort of conversion

39:54 alright I mean these but they're in charge of reporting to the public what the public saw the bowling can understand should have been stepping in to say I think if you're going to quote B O e it needs

40:06 to be a B O V and it needs to be this way yes it is a is a great question I'm not sure that it rises as standard as you see I've were formed several times to prosecute cases and actually I sent that

40:17 article to to the FCC engineers but the thing is what they're looking for is intentionally misleading Well, it's awful hard to say it's intentionally misleading when that's what everybody in the

40:29 industry is used for at least my career.

40:34 But I mean, okay, they did step in when they changed the reserves rules. They did. In that, you know, what, 10 years ago and say, well, okay, this is what, yeah, this is what the five-year

40:47 rule means. Yeah, that was actually loosening though. They loosened to the standards. It will in a lot of ways. Yeah, they made it easier, but they also,

40:56 what is it more likely than not, given that definition of a reserve, it's more likely than not to be a real numb, to be this value. More probable than not, like Andre DeBell once said, more

41:11 probable than. Anyways, you guys were throwing out these football terms that even really, like six to one, 10 to one, you got the SEC. Okay. I'm just thinking about football over here. You

41:19 guys were talking about all this engineering show. I have no idea what you're talking about I'm thinking about football and - A golf tournament. Oh, look, yeah, so Jeremy is promoting his golf

41:29 tournament. Next week, Friday, October 1st, 21st. I think it's the day after this comes out. We'll pretty much be locked in at that point, but lots and lots of nice swag. We got branded from

41:40 futures things, golf ball giveaways, drinks, barbecues, gonna be a good time. You know what my favorite term is though, of all the reserves, my favorite is the definition of possible. It's

41:52 less likely than not Which is to say, probably not. Yeah. So why are we talking about it? I just twisted my brain, less likely than, Right, less likely

42:04 than not. I don't think I can compute that right now. Less, I've only heard more likely than not. Right, well we have another category Jeremy, that's possible. You just say that out, that's

42:14 not real, that's not real. Actually, actually my, Dr. Strickland's mentor, Mr. Gillespie, Clark Gillespie, said we really need a fourth reserve category.

42:25 Um, we've approved, which is reasonably certain, probably. That's the, I promise number approved as I promise. Yeah. Yeah. And probably was more likely than not. So that's like the central

42:35 estimate and the most likely kind of number. Then we have possible, which is less likely than not, but we need a fourth category. And that's impossible. We'd have to go for impossible reserves.

42:46 Yeah. That's the red zone or whatever. The red zone in this, this is a great point though. I mean, that it was, it was snarky, but he has a great point We say there's a 10 probability at this

42:57 end of the tale for prove. There is a low end, well, high end of recovery. Well, it's a very narrow probability. Technically, it could happen. And what he used to say is, it's also possible

43:11 to solid gold meteorite land in my backyard last night. And I don't have to sit here and listen to this baloney. Yeah. Yeah. Now, I do want, I was going to go back to, so you do a lot of

43:21 posting. on what you're doing as far as with the SPE and these papers as a novice social media guy. I'm not all that prolific, but more than probably most people for sure. But how has that

43:38 affected your business? Your postings on LinkedIn, or I don't know what

43:45 other platforms you use, how has that helped Dwayne Purvis consulting company? Have you gotten business from that? Has it warmed it up, or is it all this business? It's really hard to say, Tim.

43:60 What my goal is for people to know that I'm good at solving problems and to remember me when they have a problem that needs solving. That's what we need to hear. All right, Jeremy. That's a good

44:13 tagline. So Dwayne, you tell me, my friend, where can people find you? What kinds of companies should be looking out for you? What's your email? All those good? things since I think I really

44:25 enjoyed this. And I think you'd be a great resource for a lot of small companies I talk to. No, I appreciate that very much. I'm easy to find on the web is depervispecom

44:35 for my first initial last name and professional engineercom. So on spell purpose, you know, you got to P you are P

44:44 you are V. You are V is in Victor, as my dad says, V is in Victor. I have a purpose in Ellison. You guys remember Purvis Ellison? Yes, football player, basketball, basketball that I don't

44:56 apparently, he was tall.

45:00 Plus, I mean, he's in that. He played on the football player. He was tall. He played on it. He was very tall, even for basketball player. And he had like the big dreads. But anyways, he

45:10 played for the Celtics. So when I was walking through sometimes, like in the gym, you just see people like that. And he walked through my buddy standing with him. They called him Never Nervous

45:21 Purvis, right? never nervous person. And he's like, it's right boys. We walk behind like this. You know, I think that term goes up all of the back, at least as far as my grandfather. And the

45:35 other thing that goes back at least three generations is perf or big perf. Like perf. Right, you'd be careful now when you say that. I mean, that was always the joke. That was always the joke.

45:47 Wow. The big perf. Yeah, you're a big perf. Well, my friend who's my only friend who's a big perf, that's my very clear. Very much appreciate it getting to know you. This was a blast, man.

46:01 Hey, thanks for coming on.

46:03 Thanks for coming on.