What The Funk?

0:00 All right, we are back on what the funk today. I haven't recorded in a few weeks some travel, some illness, not like major illness or anything like that. Actually, I was just telling you, I've

0:13 got three kids, right? And they're in three different schools. So whatever permutations of like, Petri dishes, they are, they all sort of come together in our house and bring it to me. So it's

0:24 like, I'm not sick. Like my energy levels are fine, but just waking up sore throat, stuffy. So you asked right before this, is it allergies? Are you sick? Sure, yeah, all of it. But there's

0:38 no rest for us, right? We're entrepreneurs. We got our own businesses to run. So no calling in sick. But I'm really, really excited to have you on today, Ashley. We've only met once through

0:50 the great Heath Satterfield. He's a connector. And he saw that, hey, this is my friend Ashley She worked with me at Devon for a while. She's starting her own company. I think she could benefit

1:02 in having some conversations with you and starting to build out her brand and get her name out there, which I see you doing on social media. So then logically coming on the podcast is the next step.

1:13 So I'm going to hit you with the hardest question first because I asked this to every guest is who are you? Who is Ashley McCormick?

1:21 Yeah. So I wear a lot of different hats in my mom So similar to you, I've got the cesspool here. Nice.

1:34 I'm familiar with all of the illnesses that come on. So I'm a mom, I'm a wife, I'm a gardener, book club coordinator and huge reader, also a trainer, a coach, and an entrepreneur now, like we

1:47 talked about. Well, that's all good stuff and we'll get into that. But like, I want

1:52 to know who you are and I want to go back, right? Like I think that you grew up in Nebraska or some non-defense, non-descript. state in the middle of the country. So tell me a little bit about

2:03 your upbringing, like where you grew up, what life was like, you know what I mean? And sort of like, what were the foundations for you before you eventually ended up in Oklahoma City and Devon

2:12 and starting your own thing? So let's go back. Yeah, it's so funny that you say that because I remember a long time ago introducing myself and saying, yeah, I'm from Nebraska. And they're like,

2:21 what state is that in? Oh my god That is the state. Yeah,

2:27 so I'm from.

2:31 So I'm from Lincoln, Nebraska. And my family all still lives there. So go Huskers. And then oh, oh, no. Well, I mean, I lived I'm like 10 minutes from Boulder. My wife works literally in the

2:43 shadow of the the CU stadium. So, you know, go coach prime. Yes, you got the buffs this year. Probably more of a rivalry to see you that it is to Nebraska, I think. But nonetheless, yes, you

2:57 got us this year. Go Huskers. Apparently, apparently, sorry. Apparently.

3:05 Yeah, so all my family lives there and then the rest of my family lives in Western Nebraska. They're all farmers. So between Lincoln and Western Nebraska, that's where all of my family exists.

3:18 So I want to talk about that a little bit. So what is Lincoln like? Is it just like sort of your typical college town in the Midwest?

3:26 Yep So

3:28 that's where the college is located, and so it increases in the number of population when college is in session. And then on game days, as I'm sure you've heard, it becomes the largest city there.

3:41 I love it. And people are still committed to Nebraska football, no matter

3:46 what. I think it's just because that's the team, and that's what we've got there. But also, college volleyball is a huge deal there as well I don't know if you saw last year, the. how they

3:59 packed the football stadium full of everybody that went and watched the volleyball game. That was a huge thing. That was crazy. That was crazy. So I can relate to this a little bit. You know,

4:09 I'm from New Hampshire, so maybe you could call that a nondescript state in the Northeast. I've had people say to me like, you're the, I'm not totally convinced that there's anybody really from

4:21 New Hampshire because I've never met. I'm 50 years old and you're the first person that I've met from there. I'm like, well, there's not that many people from there or that live there. So there

4:31 is that. But similar to kind of what you just said, the largest city in the state, I think is Manchester, which I think has a population of maybe 90, 000. I'm not sure if it's grown a little bit

4:44 more with COVID and sort of like a northern migration from Boston. But two days a year, Loudon, New Hampshire, where they have the NASCAR race. is officially the biggest city in the state, right?

4:60 Because they can hold like 95, 000 people there plus all the tailgaters. So yeah, it's always funny to see some of these like real country-ish states where they have a few days a year where not the

5:12 biggest city then becomes the biggest city. So did you go to Nebraska?

5:26 Is that where you went to school? I did not, no. I was ready to get out and to explore other parts of the United States. And so I went to school at Drake University in Des Moines, Iowa, good old

5:33 dogs. When we were exploring different colleges, we went on campus and I'm a very intuitive person. And so I walked down the campus and I was like, this is his home. Just uncomfortable. So where

5:45 I'm supposed to be. Yeah, and I met with the assistant dean of the business college and he was really focused on, developing the whole person. So not just about the education that you're going to

5:57 get, but it was also about how do we ensure that you're able to get a job after college? And that requires you to understand networking and being able to build relationships with people and be able

6:09 to share who you are and what you're about. And so he really set us up to have success in life after college. It's really interesting to hear you say that, 'cause I think that was something that

6:22 was either lacking for me or I just didn't fully understand in college. So I went to Brandeis Small Liberal Arts School and just outside of Boston. And everything while I was there was about

6:35 graduating, making sure I got good grades and going through the process. But I was liberal arts. I was a double major in history in American studies, which qualified me to do nothing, other than

6:45 maybe go to law school don't or. I but, like I'm afterwards teacher a like become

6:53 really want to do either of those things. So what do I do? Long story short, that's kind of how I ended up with a career in sales because I'm like, I don't know what I'm qualified for. There's

7:02 nothing really else. But I'm glad that that happened for you. And that's advice I would give to my kids also is like, start thinking about that a little bit earlier than I did because for me, it

7:13 wasn't until I was like 24 that I had my first real office job. And there were probably some positives to that too because there was a little bit of excitement and unknown because I never really had

7:25 true internships and I'd never really spent time in the corporate world. So it was all new and it was all exciting and fun, but I didn't really understand business. I didn't understand the working

7:38 world. And I was raw. Good students, smart kid, definitely raw from a business and professional standpoint. What was your major at Drake?

7:50 So this might sound kind of crazy but my major was accounting when

8:03 I was in high school. I loved math and I took an accounting class. Calculus was my favorite class so that sounds probably pretty crazy too but I took an accounting class and I enjoyed it and so I

8:15 went to college as an accounting major and I had a tax internship and at the end of the internship I was like this is not for me. I am not meant to be an accountant and so part of the other part of

8:30 my major was also management and so I was taking some leadership development classes and through that I was also able to take some training classes and after I took those classes I was hooked. I was

8:43 like this is what I meant to do and so I added a HR concentration onto my major and I had a professor at the end of college, and he said, Ashley, training is what you're meant to do. And I was

8:58 like, No, you don't know what you're talking about. Or I can't get that yet. And so I kind of always knew that training was what I wanted to do, but wanted to also have some other actual work

9:12 under my belt. First, so. I could see that also being almost intimidating because you're like, What do you mean? Like, who's gonna listen to me, right? Like, here I am, this young kid, and

9:25 now I'm the one that's telling peoplelike twice my age or morethat have all this professional experience. I'm supposed to train them. Why would they listen to me, right? And then, you know, some

9:35 of that doubt starts to creep in and you're like, Should I even be doing this? So tell me a little bit about your career as you lean into that. What happened after you left Iowa?

9:45 Yeah, so I had a sales job for enterprise run a car when I was in college. And so I thought sales is what I want to do. And so I took a job with Nestle. They moved me to Oklahoma City. And so I

9:58 was a sales rep for them and enjoyed sales, but that thing in the back of my head was always telling me, well, I need to get into training. And so maybe I can train sales reps, but the

10:10 opportunity within Nestle to be a trainer really didn't exist And so I had a couple of other sales jobs before I went over and worked at Paycom and started out kind of doing some selling, but then

10:24 had the opportunity to build a training team. And we trained on everything, how to utilize the tool, how to develop personal, professional, and leadership development skills, and all of the

10:40 different things in between. I also trained sales reps as well. It was a great way for me to be able to better understand and build those skills, to be a better trainer. Did you approach

10:54 leadership there, management, and say, I have a passion for training, and I wanna put this group together? Or was it that there was an opportunity you saw like job posting online and went for it?

11:05 Like what was the path you took to forge this as part of your career?

11:10 Yeah, I was doing some client training through, I don't know if you've ever heard of tax credits, but that was part of my role was to be able to sell them on this tax credit tool, but also then

11:23 train them on how to use it. And so I was doing a little bit of training and I had met with one of the other leaders and said, Hey, you don't really have any training hereand we're going quickly.

11:34 What if we all worked together? And there were a couple of other trainers that were elsewhere throughout the organization, but what if we came together to be able to all. cool our resources and be

11:46 better trainers together, and then also work to develop all of these other things. And so

11:52 they said, yes, I mean, it was a startup company. And so they were like, yeah, let's try this out. Let's see how it goes. And we went from just a few employees to 12 in just a couple of years

12:03 on this training team. And now that team is huge. I mean, there's several

12:12 different aspects to that department. Well, yeah, pay comes enormous, right? One of the largest companies in Oklahoma, I think that won't used to be Chesapeake arenas now, the pay come center

12:19 or whatever, right? Where the thunder play? Yeah. Yeah, I've been at some companies that have used pay come. So I'm familiar with the user interface and all that stuff. I wanna lean into the

12:30 training a little bit too. So my background is primarily in sales and tech. So very familiar with like software training, technology training, right? You go to a half day. course, or you, you

12:44 know, watch some videos online that they tell you to watch. And then it's like, boom, go start using Salesforce or go start using TriNet or whatever it is. And you just sort of figure it out. I

12:55 get that. But, but what about like the softer training stuff, right? The people stuff, the, um, the coaching, the evolution of the employee. Talk to me a little bit about that, because I

13:06 could see that being more fun. I just don't really understand it I think in part, because I've worked for mostly smaller companies where it's just like, here's your job. Like, what are you going

13:15 to do? Go do it. I'm like, okay. So whenever training I've had from past experiences in my career or in life, I just need to apply here. Okay. Got it. Tell me a little bit about the

13:26 non-technical training stuff that you did and what you really like about that.

13:33 Yeah. I think that it relates. Uh, so when you think about that technical training, what's the purpose of going to the technical training, why do you go? to be more efficient in my day to day.

13:48 And also, I think there's a level of, this will be good for my career. Like I learned early on, at least with Salesforce, 'cause that was like sort of the first online enterprise CRM system. So

14:02 as a salesperson, like you really should learn it. And I realized it was something good for me to put in my resume and even start to do when I went to a smaller company was, I'm a sales force

14:14 expert, right? So now, not only do I know how to use this inside out, I can teach other people how to use it. And I can do some of the dirty work in the background that you might have to pay a

14:24 consultant a lot of money to do if nobody in the company understands it. So it's partially like career path value, but also selfishly like, I don't need to like spend a lot of time. I can actually

14:36 do more work and selling, which is what you want me to do than just spending time marking around in the system.

14:44 Yeah, so same things true with those softer skills. As many times, we are promoted into a leadership position but haven't really learned how to be a great leader or how to develop those

14:57 professional skills. So having somebody that comes in to be able to teach you how to do that adds those skills to your tool belt so that way you can be more efficient to be able to do what's

15:07 necessary to be a great leader

15:12 And how did you facilitate these sessions and were people ever frustrated with like you're taking me away from doing my job? Because I could see that being a thing like hey my bonus is tied to X,

15:25 revenue achievement or lack of downtime or putting out this much code and you're just here distracting me with this training shit like how did you get people to buy it?

15:38 Yeah, yeah, I've had those people that show up and they just like lean back in their chair and they're like, Oh, I'm just here for a couple of hours, and whatever. And so my approach with

15:49 training is really to engage with people, to be able to understand where they're coming from. But we've actually taken training to a whole other level. And so not only do I offer training as part

16:02 of what I do, but also group coaching. And so it takes that piece that you're talking about, to be able to help people figure out where they are and how to get where they want to go. And so really

16:16 my approach to training isn't just saying, Oh, I'm coming in and I'm the experts and I know all of these things and I know exactly what you should do and how you should do it. Because I don't know.

16:27 What do you think when you hear

16:30 that? I don't want to hear it. I'm just checking out. I'm already starting to put up like a wall to you when I start to hear things like that, it's like, well, you know, what do you, you

16:45 haven't worked in my job. You don't know what my troubles are like day to day. This isn't benefiting me. I'm just going to check my fantasy football team or start responding to emails because

16:56 you're annoying me, right? So yeah, it's just being very blunt.

17:03 Exactly. That's what, I mean, like even me being in the audience feels that way when a trainer comes in with that type of mentality And so my approach is really, no, you are the expert, Jeremy.

17:15 You're the expert in your life, in your situation, in your team, and what's going on. And it's my job to be able to help you figure out where you want to go and how you're going to get there.

17:26 Also to have that accountability to get you where you want to go. Yeah, I think people leaving with items that they need to accomplish boxes. They need to check is important too because I can't

17:39 think of. I've been in so many different sessions where it's like, all right, you know, this is what I'm gonna tell you to do, go do it. Like, I'm not gonna change if that's really the approach.

17:50 It's like, well, what is then my incentive to do so? What is the accountability that's being held to me outside of what my regular job is? Like, why should I care? So is that something that you

18:01 try to implement as well as, like, this isn't a session that just ends today and we're done, right? This is now something that we need you to execute on and tell us how you're executing on it.

18:13 Yep, you got it. Yeah, so that's the difference between training and then actual development. And so many times when people come to me and they're like, I need to go, I need to have training for

18:22 my team. What that tells me is they really just wanna check a box. So I just need to have training for my team and they're just gonna go and they're gonna enjoy it for the day or for the few hours

18:35 that they're there but no real development is going to happen. And the approach that we take is really more of development focused, which is behavior change over time. And so you got to learn the

18:49 skill, but then you also have to figure out how does this apply to me and my situation, so process it. And then at the end, you've got to be able to figure out how do I take what I've learned and

19:01 create action. And the key thing is not just this fufu little thing. Like, I'm going to be a better communicator That doesn't work. How are you going to be a better communicator, Jeremy? What

19:14 does that look like for you? And what are specific actions that you can take between now and the next time that we meet? Because we are going to meet again, and we're going to check in to be able

19:24 to see how you've applied to that and what obstacles you've encountered along the way so that way you can continue to work towards improving on

19:38 that behavior that you committed to I like it. We'll get to rooted in leadership in a minute, but I want to continue the path after PECOM. Did you go from PECOM to Devon or were there steps in

19:48 between? Yep, I went from PECOM to Devon and I was a technology trainer and so I taught to people how to utilize the technology like SharePoint and Spotfire and Pi Historian and learned how these

20:05 tools work and then taught to people how to utilize

20:12 them SharePoint's one thing, I think that can be like generic across industries, you're talking about Spotfire, you're talking about Pi Historian production data, you need to have a basis for oil

20:24 and gas in that case too. Did Devon provide you with training on oil and gas when you got to Devon so that you had some idea of what you were then training people on so it wasn't just this generic

20:37 this is what the tool does. It's this is what it does as it relates to oil and gas.

20:44 Yeah, I mean, you gotta understand the industry and I had no background in oil and gas. Everything we've talked about up to this point, I knew nothing about oil and gas. My grandpa worked at a

20:53 gas station. I think that was about the extent of understanding it. But then we did have classes back in the day where they taught you about how we get oil out of the grounds and how does it work?

21:06 And I remember sitting in one of these classes and we were supposed to introduce ourselves and also say something that was made from oil and gas. And I was sitting in the front of the room and really

21:17 worried they were gonna start with me. Luckily, they started in the back of the room. And so by the time that we got to the front of the room, I understood the patterns and did part of

21:27 the question. But my knowledge was very slim. And so I had to learn very quickly, what is this industry? How does it work? And how do all

21:41 of these tools, how do you utilize them within your day-to-day? And how does it work for this specific role? 'Cause you're right. My historian is something that a petrotechnical professional is

21:47 going to use. And they're incredibly smart individuals

21:54 that have very specialized understanding of these products. So I was always learning and always encouraging people to be able to teach me and went into it from a sense of curiosity. I could see that

22:08 being exhausting in some ways, too. Because, yes, of course, you constantly need to keep people engaged and apply these softer skills when you're in training and development sessions. And in

22:20 that line of work. But learning all the technical ins and outs and how technology is applied to it is not easy. So oil and gas has always been so fascinating to me I'm coming up on - 17 years and

22:37 mostly upstream oil and gas and technology. And it's always been really fascinating to me the difference in the perception versus the reality. I think the perception of oil and gas is very old

22:48 school, boots and hard hats and trucks and very male centric.

22:57 But really it's truly at the cutting edge of innovation, like the idea of drilling into the ground three miles and then two miles horizontally to hit something that's like the size of a box to pull

23:13 oil or gas or condensate or something out of is amazing. And that just doesn't happen like

23:22 in a place, it happens somewhere in California because it bubbles out of the ground, but in somewhere like Oklahoma, like you gotta go find it, you gotta go get it And now you have to do it in a

23:31 clean and sustainable and responsible manner.

23:35 It's a super fascinating and cool industry. And I think that because of the price crash a little bit in the 80s and 90s, you saw a little bit of a gap. I just had a conversation with someone about

23:47 this this morning that's like, we have people on our team who are like 65 and people who are 35. Like where do we find that person who's like 45 or 50 years old that has the requisite experience

24:00 that still has like the hunger isn't about to retire and isn't like so young in their career? Maybe Devin did a better job of that, but curious like how you would manage the training and integration

24:16 of teams where you have people who are 55 to 60 and people who are 25 to 30.

24:24 Yeah, and I think a lot of that was caused by the layoffs that have happened over the past couple of decades as well with the highs and the lows that have occurred. But the same is true, whether

24:37 you have age differences or just differences in companies, 'cause a lot of mergers and acquisitions are happening now as we have consolidation in the industry. And so we have people that have

24:48 different backgrounds in general, or that have come from different companies, different age groups, women are becoming more prominent in the oil and gas industry, and so - For sure. All of that

25:01 is impacting it So the same thing is true, or the same set of advice, is that we need to get to know each other. We need to understand each other, and who we are, not on a surface level, but

25:14 deeper than that. And we need to learn what the strengths are of each of those individuals that we work with, and then how to work together to utilize those strengths, and really lean into those,

25:26 as well as being able to have those difficult conversations

25:31 Well, well answered, so how long did you work at Devon for?

25:37 Yeah, it was there for almost 10 years. So

25:42 I started out as a technology trainer, and then I moved into a leadership role, and so I led a variety of different technology teams. Service Center, AV, Identity Management, the data team, so

25:56 making sure that all of the data was where it needed to be. So tools like Snowflake and Databricks and things like that And then I was on the organizational development team for about a year as well.

26:09 So where did these roles report into the IT or the technology groups? Is this an HR function? Does it roll up into operations? Like I'm trying to think of where organizationally this sits.

26:22 Yep, so I was in the technology organization or majority of the time that I was there. About nine out of 10 years I was in technology. And so it's really interesting that you talk about the

26:33 evolution of oil and gas because I've been able to be big part of that, particularly with Industry 40 going on, where companies are completely changing the way that they're working, and so now we

26:47 have to be able to be more efficient in the way that we're getting oil and gas out of the ground. We've got to be able to utilize technology and data, and AI, even, is disrupting the industry in

27:01 the way that we work And so being able to know and understand all of these things and help to implement some of the things that are going on has helped give me a better understanding of what's going

27:14 on in the oil and gas base and how we need to evolve as an industry. Yeah, and I've always thought about this too, right? You worked for a large, acquisitive, you know, technology centric, oil

27:31 and gas company that's public. And when you're public. The information's also public

27:39 on compensation amongst people, right? And I could see some challenges that people would have saying, I'm smarter than this guy, this gal over here, and they're making4 million a year, and I'm

27:49 making 150 grand. Like, I should be, I should have that job. This person doesn't know more than me. Like, how do you deal with, and maybe you did, maybe you didn't, but like, how do you deal

27:58 with some of that? Or do people just say, well, that's kind of how it is, and I've got a job to do? 'Cause for me, that's something that I think I would have a challenge with is like, I don't

28:08 understand. I have all the same skills as this person. Why is this person making 20 times what I am and then have boats and houses in Breckenridge and send their kids to private school? And

28:17 meanwhile, I'm just like, paycheck to paycheck.

28:21 Yeah, yeah, I've heard that before from people. Luckily in the oil and gas industry, people are paid pretty well. And

28:31 so focusing on, where we're trying to go as an organization and what goals we're trying to get is really the more important thing. And so if we're focused on all of those other things, we've got

28:43 some bigger issues when it comes to culture. And

28:49 yeah, we're focused on pay and

28:55 smaller things. What is the root of the issue here is really what we need to get down to What's not working well within the organization and how do we need to be able to build those goals to be able

29:07 to work towards

29:11 that? I have so many questions 'cause I haven't had somebody in your particular role, like I said, I get the technology training piece but there's like a lot of soft stuff here that you have to be

29:22 really good at to get people to buy into. So I'm trying to think of like,

29:28 What is, how do you quantify success in this type of role? Right, like it's very straightforward to me if you're a production engineer, like it, you know, uptime and, you know, production

29:40 versus forecast. Like how did we do, right? Like to me, it's very tangible how a CFO's performance is tied to compensation and how it's viewed. How, like what were the success metrics for you

29:54 that you could point to as my group is really kicking ass? Yeah, so when it comes to the leadership development program that we rolled out, we talked about those check-ins that happen a month later.

30:11 And so when they would come back and they would share what successes they had, the things that I would hear is, this is impacting my family, the vendors that I work with. And so it was trickling

30:21 out into all of these different aspects of their life. The big thing for me that really clicked was when safety results rolled in and so when we had high safety issues. And after the training, now

30:37 we had practically no safety issues at all. And the benefit to that or the reason why that happened was because people are willing to have those difficult conversations. And so they're willing to

30:49 lean into that and create the psychological safety and the trust for people to be able to say, Hey, I think we need to stop work. And when I say that, Jeremy's not going to yell and scream at me

30:60 for we're stopping production. No, we're doing this because it's what we need to do in order to have a safe environment. And so one of the big results was safety numbers went down to practically

31:13 zero. We also saw an increase in production. And so we can't take all the claim for that.

31:22 But it is pretty amazing that when you continue to do things that are. You continue to do things and see the production numbers continue to go up even when we think, oh, we're at the top, we can't

31:35 increase those numbers anymore and then they continue to go up because now we're working as a team and we're solving issues together and collaborating on how we become more efficient and more

31:47 effective in what we're doing. And then we see those results go up. I mean, like 8 increase in production numbers and just for just months Yeah, and so. Just by

31:59 implementing better processes, best practices, having training on both technology and communication amongst the team, right? Like those are some of the things that you then point to and say, Hey,

32:11 this had a direct impact to this. Because if there was a communication gap, I could see how that would affect production or safety. Like that tangibly makes sense to me.

32:21 Yeah, yeah. And so when our teams are communicating better, We also have people wanting to come to work. a big problem that we see in oil and gas, particularly with this transformation that's

32:33 going on where people need to be able to have these skills where they understand technology and they understand data. It's hard to find those people who really want to do that work. And so I'm sure

32:46 that you're familiar with that when it comes to recruiting, it's finding those individuals and then getting them to stay. And it's very costly for oil and gas companies to continue to train and

32:58 develop and get people up to speed, you'd rather them stay there. And so if you can decrease that turnover and have employees that look forward to going to work, and they enjoy it, and that

33:09 employee satisfaction rate goes up, which is what we saw as huge increases in employee satisfaction, now not only do they look forward to going to work, but they say, Hey, boss, how can I help

33:21 more? What else can I do? And that is where you really have that snowball effect to start to happen. That's cool, right? I mean, that shows a cultural shift and an approach to betterment of the

33:36 organization as a whole, and also, you know, personal growth, professional growth.

33:43 Question, and I'm gonna put you on the spot with this. I mean, I put you on the spot with every question, but I'm just gonna do it right now again. Like, I get fundamentally how this makes sense

33:51 for Devon. Devon has thousands of people. It's got a 50-story building in downtown Oklahoma City It operates in various different basins. I get why this is important, right, for Devon. But how

34:03 does this apply then to the smaller company? The funk futures, the digital wildcatters, right? Somebody who's earlier in the revolution and has a handful of people on their team. Like, how do

34:16 you see this shifting? And this is probably a good transition to talking about root and leadership a little bit, but is it as applicable? Is it a similar approach that you take with smaller teams?

34:27 How does that work for the non-devan, the small guy? Mm-hmm, yeah, so it's even more important for those smaller companies because as the leader, I've really got to be focused on strategy and

34:40 vision and where I'm taking this company. And so if I'm focused in the day to day and the micro-managing of everything that's going on, I'm not going to take that company where it needs to go. And

34:51 so the leaders have really got to be focused on where are we going and how do I empower my team? How do I make sure that I set the vision for where we're going to go and then help my team be able to

35:03 just empower them to be able to get us there.

35:08 And so set those boundaries, but ensure that they are empowered and have the autonomy to do what needs to get them. Now this is a little bit of like a look in the mirror moment for me hearing you

35:20 say this stuff and this probably happens when you have longer conversations with people too, because. I don't intend to micromanage, but this is my company, it's got my name on it, it's small.

35:31 Like, I can't help it, right? So, you know, the best way to lead for me is to work the most hours, be the hardest worker on the team. Do things that are the opposite of what I didn't like when

35:46 I was an employee and I had bosses. I think there's some benefit for that. But I think what you're saying is, people will start to feel more empowered if you let them run a little bit. Like I

35:59 probably, and I know I'm not the only person running a small company that does this. It's probably a case of like over watering the tree. And maybe every once in a while, you need to actually like

36:08 let it grow itself. But man, that's so hard to do. And it's probably something that you're seeing with your company too, as you bring on other consultants and contractors that work with you and

36:18 actually empowering them, sure you do a better job of it than me So that's a different story, conversation. So I admire the fact that you decided to branch out and be an entrepreneur. I think, I

36:35 mean, Devin, probably, you know, one of the best companies in oil and gas, one of the best companies in the state of Oklahoma in Oklahoma City,

36:46 probably compensates fairly well. You've got stock, you've got good benefits, and you decide, nope, I'm ready to go out and do my own thing. Like, what prompted you to do that? Some people

36:58 would say, this is crazy, right? You've got such a good situation over here, but it wasn't fulfilling enough for you. I'm guessing in some way, or maybe it was fulfilling, but there was still

37:09 something greater out there. So walk me through, like, why did you decide to go off on your own? Yeah, you're exactly right. I mean, most people are probably thinking, man, this girl is crazy.

37:22 And honestly, I thought I was a little bit crazy too. I'm

37:27 probably going to sound a little weird, but I kept feeling this calling like I was meant to be able to do more. And so there were certain doors that were closing and then others that were opening up.

37:38 And I've read a lot about it and I said, I don't think this is what I'm meant to do. I really think that I am meant to stay here and continue to collect this really great paycheck and make a

37:51 difference within this organization. And something just kept pushing me out to be able to do more. And so, yeah, I took the leap and jumped because I want to be able to have an impact on more

38:04 individuals. I saw the impact that happened within Devon and how transformational that was. And so, yeah, why couldn't more leaders throughout the country be able to experience this as well. to

38:20 have more impact and create a better culture where employees look forward to going to work and enjoy what they're doing. To me, that's what's motivating and push me out. I, well, I admire it,

38:37 like I said, and good for you for following that calling. I think a lot of people do have callings that they don't pursue, and maybe they end up regretting it years later. Maybe they don't, but

38:47 like my calling for starting funk futures really started happening in 2017. And I think, I'm sure some of the people listening to this I worked for from 2017 to 2021, it wasn't really the same for

38:58 me. Ever since I realized what I needed to do, it was more I'm going to do this, I'm gonna work my hardest, because that's what you're paying me to do. My heart does not feel the same, because I

39:10 now know what my calling is going to be. And that's a big moment, right? Then again, at the same time, my wife was pregnant with her third kid. pick mortgage. I've been the breadwinner in the

39:23 family. So now you're dealing with other things that are like, well, I mean, everybody has to work. If I do follow my calling, how am I going to make money? How do I get to do business? Like,

39:35 like all of those other things. But in a lot of ways, it makes you feel really alive. So I hope here in the early stages of rooted in leadership, that you are feeling some of that energy, despite

39:46 some of the craziness and stress, I'll share with you some of my early posts on LinkedIn where it's like, okay, wow, I'm working so much. And my clients often aren't paying on time. And I've got

39:60 to pay my people on time. And I'm traveling a lot. And I'm not sleeping as much. And I'm like, whoa. Okay. But like, this is what I signed up for, you know, like this is this is the game.

40:12 And I'm gonna play it. And and it still means a lot. It would It'd be hard to go back. I think after sort of experiencing what I've experienced these past almost four years at this point.

40:27 Talk to me a little bit about what you like to do outside of work. I know you mentioned reading, and I think there's kind of like a sports fan in you. I see a baseball jersey behind you. I think

40:38 you said that was your husband's. I see a bunch of books. What do you like to do outside of work?

40:45 Yeah, big thing is gardening And so I have a giant raised bed garden. And so I really enjoy planting vegetables. And so we've been able to can those or freeze them or do a variety of different

41:01 things so that way we can keep them. And then also reading. I do read a lot and I mentioned I have a book club that I'm a part of and so I enjoy that. And then of course, you know, two kids keeps

41:14 you plenty busy with all of their activities and things that they've got going on. No shortage of things to do. No, how old are your kids? They are six and nine, so first and third. Wow, okay,

41:28 I have three, they're 14, 12 and six. So, six is an amazing age, it really is. 14 and 12 may or may not be amazing, you'll have to ask me a few years 'cause I have two girls that are 14 and 12.

41:44 And it's different, like, yes, seventh grade was like hard for me, but it's different for girls. And I think it's also different for this generation with social media and some of the bullying

41:58 that happens. And it's almost sad to see the way that some of that shakes out. But the six-year-old, like, he still loves us, right? My wife and I talk about this. Like, he just wants to hang

42:11 out with us still. And it's almost like, it goes in the other direction as they get a little bit older is like, Just I don't wanna hang out with you right now. So hopefully you're still holding

42:20 out of that with a nine-year-old, but six is like pretty cool Just wants to play basketball or kick around the soccer ball or everything's like kind of new-ish and amazing and it's it's fun to See

42:32 the world through the lens of a of a six-year-old, you know, I think that's it's pretty cool Yeah, my six-year-old tells me that when she gets older, she's going to have a house right next door

42:44 and So that way she can always live next door to mom. And so we'll see how long that lasts I have a feeling that I'm gonna have to remind her that maybe when she's in like High school or college like

42:54 remember you wanted to hang out with me forever Yeah, wait, wait, wait, wait, where are you going?

43:02 Yeah, well that that I mean that tells me like that it's been a priority for you to establish a culture of love within the family which which I think is important and I think there's a lot of aspects

43:13 of of applying like familial principles to work. Probably easier to do that at a smaller company, but if you're able to do that at a big company too and have a 5, 000 person organization operate as

43:26 a cohesive unit where people generally like like or even love each other, that's awesome, right? And I think that says a lot about you, that you've got that with your family and then you try to

43:39 instill that and embed that in other organizations. What's it like being in Oklahoma as a Huskers fan? Because that was like the rivalry, right? It was the Sooners and the Cornhuskers for many

43:54 years. Like, you got to be an outlier.

43:58 Yeah, most of the people that find out that I'm from Nebraska are like, Oh yeah, I went to Nebraska once for the Sooners game. And they enjoyed it. They really liked going to Nebraska and being

44:12 able to be a part of that culture and see what it was like.

44:18 They are actually, most of them are sad that that doesn't exist anymore. We played a couple of years ago, and so that was good. Nebraska did not do well at all, but I'm sure - They've been a

44:28 little less consistent, although it looks like they're starting to pick back up. Oh, you use like, you know, they're one of the gold standards, right? Kind of one of the blue bloods. Nebraska

44:37 is two, but they've just had more of a down stretch. They could probably use some training and some leadership coaching, just throwing that out there. Where do you see your business going? Like,

44:49 did you start this to build a repeatable model where you now bring out other consultants and you're training lots of different companies? Or is this like, you'd be fine just doing this on your own

45:01 or maybe adding one other person and having less accounts? 'Cause like, and there's no wrong answer. And I think that it's probably gonna change and be different from whatever you think that it is

45:13 But I'm curious, like, do you want this to be something? that's big or do you want to have your hands on everything and and keep it small?

45:22 Yeah I believe so I call myself the chief multiplier because for me what's really important is being able to take something and then let it multiply out into lots of other people and so anytime that I

45:37 create anything I want it to be something that somebody else could be able to pick up and utilize themselves and so building it in a way that other leaders and learn how to be really great coaches and

45:49 facilitators of the conversation because leaders need to be great coaches especially in this day and age they need to be able to truly listen to people unfortunately what we do too often is we rush

46:04 through we've got tasks that we need to complete and so we don't take the time to really listen to people and help them be able to work through things on A lot of what I'm creating can be then reused

46:16 within an organization. They can take it and run with it. But then also yes, there's potential as it continues to grow if people wanted to join in and be a part of rooted in leadership. I would

46:31 love that as well. Leading others was one of the most empowering, beneficial, rewarding things that I've done And so I love developing other people, whether that's me as a trainer or a coach or as

46:49 a leader of them to help them be able to reach their full

46:54 potential. 'Cause it seems to me like, yes, you can have a model and I'm sure you've really scripted out what it is that you do in your sessions and when you kind of pitch your new business, why

47:07 people move forward But there really is a human centric element. to this, right? Like it takes the right type of person. And earlier on in this conversation, you talked about communication. And

47:19 I think when I hear communication, I think about talking. But truthfully, what you're really getting at is like listening and digesting and kind of collaborating, I think. And it's crazy that my

47:33 mind goes there where I think communication in terms of talking. But it does. So it's almost like you're going into an uphill battle right away and saying, hey, you need to listen. Need to listen

47:43 more. It's the same thing in sales. You picture the prototypical salesperson, you think like hotshot, you know, fast talkers, like whatever, the best salespeople that I know are great listeners.

47:56 And they don't rush to respond. They make sure that when they do respond, they have the right person responding, the right communication style and the right message. That's learned though, right?

48:08 You're trained. When you come in, like you gotta hit the phones. Well, hit the phones to me sounds like talk, right? You get out there, listen, right? Listening is so key and so crucial.

48:22 This has been really fun for me. You've got a different slant, I think, on

48:28 operational performance. I think your technical background will really help, whether it's working with oil and gas companies since you'd be so plug and play in the lingo, which is, I mean, how

48:40 many acronyms have you learned in the last 10 years, right? No, I don't guess, it's insane. But, you know, I would think that there's a lot of companies that you could easily do business with,

48:48 not just in Oklahoma City and beyond. Where can people find you, find your website, and, you know, get ahold of you? Yeah, I'm on LinkedIn, also rootedinleadershipcom.

49:01 It's the website, and there's the ability to schedule time to meet with me to figure out whether or not This is the right fit for your organization. to be able to learn more and yeah you're exactly

49:13 right, listening is the key and so the way that I approach is really just trying to understand what's going on within that organization and what they're dealing with and so that's really how we'll

49:24 start the conversation is what's happening for you right now and where do you want to be able to take it and communication like you mentioned is not just transmitting it's also being able to

49:40 repeat back what's going on and so I've got to be able to make sure that I understand what you're saying and repeat it back to you in a way that resonates with you and that's actually what you're

49:50 trying to talk about. Yeah I mean high performing individual contributors get promoted and then they're put in positions where they don't have the training or skills to excel in that role and this is

50:03 across industries it's across professions you know and it's across age groups

50:11 It's a challenge and I hope that you do continue to solve that challenge because I wish I had some better coaches and leaders that I reported too early in my career, but nothing I can do about that

50:21 now. Final question and typically I ask for your contact info and all that stuff, but rootedinleadershipcom. So now I'm seeing it because of your gardening stuff, right? So you're tidying. All

50:32 right. Now, okay. Yeah. Yeah Give me this one more answer to this question and that's what advice would you either give to your younger self, like the 21, 25 year old version of yourself or like

50:49 a new professional that's going out into the business world? Curious what your answer would be to that. Yeah. I think that new professionals coming into the business world might already know this,

51:02 but I certainly didn't When I was younger, I worked my tail off, so I learned from my parents and my grandparents You work really hard in order to be able to get where you want to go. And I did.

51:16 It worked real hard and I hit burnout and there's so many people in this world that have hit that or are struggling through that. And even you mentioned, yeah, I work really hard. I work more

51:27 hours than everybody else. What I tell my younger self is the work will still be there and maybe not even work that needs to get done or maybe somebody else could do it I don't have to be the one to

51:40 do all of that work. And so realizing that later in my life has helped me to be able to create so much more balance in my life and focus on the things that are really important, you know, my kids

51:52 and my family and my health are very important, so making sure I spend the time for me as well as then being intentional about the time that I spend at work.

52:05 Love that. Love that Work hard but find balance. Right, it's not like work hard, play hard. It's like truly like listen to yourself, listen to your body, listen to those around you and try to

52:18 find and identify that balance. I love that. Ashley, thank you so much. It's been really fun getting to know you. I'm excited to throw you some business opportunities 'cause I don't know anything.

52:28 I can't do anything that you do. So maybe there'll be opportunities appreciate I, me having for you thank, Yes. today it out. coming for much so you thank but well as people my of some coach and

52:29 in come you have can I where