What The Funk?

0:04 Steven Hatcher. What's up, my guy? Hey, buddy. How are you? Fantastic. So I had to share this before we jump into the podcast and learn all about who Steven Hatcher is. Minerals guy.

0:20 The infamous Steven Hatcher. I had a dream last night. I've dreamed almost every night and they're pretty vivid these days. That's for a different conversation. But last night, I actually had a

0:32 dream. I don't know if it's because I was anxious about this podcast. Hadn't done a recording in a couple of weeks. But I had a dream that I was doing a podcast and the guest was Johnny Damon. You

0:44 know who Johnny Damon is? Yeah, baseball player. Baseball player, right? Red Sox legend played on the Yankees, played on a bunch of teams. And we were like 20 something minutes into it and he's

0:55 like, that's it. That's it. I I gotta go. This wasn't great. I was so bummed out about it and I woke up and I felt like it was real. Like, was that really my worst podcast? And it was Johnny

1:05 Damon. Anyways, you're not Johnny Damon, but you are a fun guy. I'm not just like Johnny Damon. Just like Johnny Damon was a fun guy. Um, but you know, really wanted to have you on here today.

1:19 Cause you and I have known each other for a little while. When I met you, you were working at Sklar. Yeah. Exploration out of Boulder, one of the few What was the name of that Mexican joint that

1:29 we used to go eat burritos at? Efforts. Efforts. Yes. Yeah. That was my first that was like, uh, you were at petro de. Yes. Yeah. I think you actually sold this. We actually bought the

1:44 software. Bring piece of software for a while. Um, and yeah, that's the, that's the first, uh, that's the first interaction that we and then the small world that is oil and gas.

1:58 we came to realize that we knew a bunch of the same people. And then we lived like a quarter of a mile away from each other - Yeah, until you decided you didn't want to be a suburbs guy - Yeah - I

2:08 had to get out of Boulder County -

2:11 Yeah - So I want to know a little bit about you. We'll talk about minerals guy. One of your many ventures that you have going on. It seems like you and I are typically getting together to

2:25 commiserate over all the different businesses we have Trying to manage family and work and all that fun stuff. But I want to introduce the audience to you. Like you're upbringing. I know you went

2:37 to law school. Like how you ended up in Colorado. Give us the full download on who Stephen Hatcher is - Yeah. Yeah, I was reading this question and thinking, who is Stephen Hatcher? Who am I?

2:48 Who am I - Right - Oh yeah. So Stephen Hatcher. So I grew up in a small town.

2:57 outside of Baton Rouge, Louisiana. My dad was from Baton Rouge. His family,

3:06 his family, he was from Clinton, Louisiana, which is, you know, about an hour outside of Baton Rouge. My mom, he was from Central Louisiana, and she is a good Southern Louisiana Cajun coon ass,

3:19 right? I'm

3:21 a little bit of a half redneck, half Cajun, is what I call it Well, yeah, both of my parents' families were, you know, in Louisiana. It's interesting. My grandpa passed last year, and I went

3:36 down and I was going through a bunch of pictures with my grandmother. And she actually showed me this picture of the hatchers in Clinton, Louisiana, that was taken in like 1907. And it looked like

3:49 they, I mean, they were all, it was like an old-timey photo. They were all dressed you know,, you know, Sunday best and probably had to stand there for you know, 30 minutes on grainy photo,

3:59 but they were standing in like a, it looked like a creep bed or like the,

4:05 you know, basically like so that they could, you know, all the adults were standing, you know, towards the top and, you know, all the kids at the bottom. And it was just really cool to, you

4:15 know, it was really cool to kind of connect with my heritage, right? So that's where I was born, that's where I was raised, you know, growing up, I remember hot summers - Yeah, bad - I

4:30 remember wearing shorts on Christmas, most Christmases, crawfish at Easter, and LSU football, right? So

4:42 that's pretty, that's a lot of it. I come from a big family, I've got four siblings who were now spread to the four winds. One of my younger brothers actually lives out here now, getting ready to

4:53 graduate in mind. And so we've got some family out here, but yeah, yeah. I mean, Louisiana, through and through. My wife is from Shreveport. I went to LSU, for undergrad, I went to LSU for a

5:08 couple of years, three years to be exact. And then my parents had moved to Atlanta, and they were like, Why don't you come to Atlanta and finish your degree and really get screwed on straight?

5:18 Yeah, yeah, so I moved to Atlanta and finished up there. And then I came back for phase two, LSU, the law school.

5:26 And that went much better. Ended up moving to Shreveport after

5:34 law school because of the Hanesville shale. I had a bunch of buddies that had moved up to Shreveport after finishing undergrad that were all working as landmen. Right? And I didn't have any, no

5:48 family in the industry Um But I really went where opportunity was, right? So I was offered a job with an awesome firm, and those folks were really, really great to me. And yeah, I mean, that's

6:02 how I ended up in Shreveport. I met my wife within like the first three months of moving there - Wow - And yeah, awesome community. Shreveport is fantastic, and I still have, you know, a lot of

6:15 folks that I keep up with, that live there. So it's interesting My mom still lives in Baton Rouge. My

6:23 in-laws are in Shreveport, and we go to Shreveport just as much as we go to South Louisiana, so. So yeah,

6:33 was dating a girl, got a job offer to move out to Colorado. And

6:40 we call it our pit stop. I made a pit stop in Shreveport, met my wife, and then we moved out here, and really, you know, started our married life and then. You know, that's when I went in

6:52 house for Squar and started my career, you know, not in the only gas because in law practice that was, you know, 85 of our clients were, you know, oil and gas producers. But,

7:07 yeah, we got two kids. We live just north of Littleton in a little community. We love Colorado.

7:16 We go back to Louisiana a couple times a year You know, we love the people and the food, but we like the weather in Colorado. So,

7:26 we're not supposed to tell people about that. Yeah. Remember, it's snowy and cold all winter. It's freezing. Right, right, right. Yeah, it's funny because all my relatives and friends down in

7:36 Louisiana, you know, anytime they come to Colorado, they only go to the mountains. Right. So that's when they have a vision of where I live, they think I live at, you know, 10, 000 feet You

7:46 know, feet of snow, you know, in the winter, and I'm like, No, no, no.

7:51 Now Denver is very mild - It's as sunny as San Diego here, but that's the big secret. So you started off as a lawyer, right? But we're working a lot in oil and gas. So you understood how to read

8:07 contracts, you understood land, obviously you understood minerals. Were you working for SCLAR, which has assets and what, the Black Warrior Basin - Oh, and so both coast, SCLAR's assets were

8:22 Gulf Coast. So Texas really texts us all the way to Florida, right? If that makes sense. So Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, and Florida, and the Corpus, the Corpus of the company's

8:35 assets were in South Alabama and the smackover. So the Black Warrior Basin was a cold bed methane play that got some action in the 2000s, but really the Corpus of what we did was. was in the

8:51 smackover and Norfolk formations, which is a really fabulous conventional production. And when I joined SCLAR,

9:02 they had just discovered Brooklyn Field and were extremely active there. And it was a lot of fun. We did a lot of really, really cool projects -

9:14 So you, were you working for SCLAR and Shreveport? Initially - Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, yeah. So I'll rewind, right? So SCLAR was a big client on the firm, right? So there was a relationship

9:29 there that went back, you know, for a very long time. And yeah, and so I had the opportunity, you know, to do some work and to meet, you know, a guy who would become my mentor and eventually

9:41 my boss at SCLAR. And, but yeah, we did work for, you know, all sorts of producers in the Haynesville, you know. Mainly I worked on transactions that tried to avoid the litigation stuff as much

9:54 as I could. Sure. But did a lot of a lot of you know you know drilling individual or title opinions and you know willing gas transactions and assignments and you know one of the cool things about

10:08 you know land and legal is that it really it really it really permeates you know

10:15 It you know everything about you know the exploration for production of oil and actual gas, right? So it's really the building blocks for how you know companies You know put put these lands together,

10:29 right so that they can they can go out there and drill wealth, right? So yeah, I mean mineral law was a was a big a big portion of it and I think I was drawn to to property law and It when I was in

10:43 school and it did really well until it was up. It was a it was a It was just a really natural fit, right? Once I actually started working for clients and I was like, wow, this is really cool.

10:54 Really enjoy this. And but, you know, one of the big transitions was when, you know, I made the jump to working for Squar 'cause I'd always been, you know, when you're in private practice, you

11:07 know, your clients give you,

11:10 you know, as much of the, as much of the

11:15 facts as you need, right? In order to give them, you know, in order to provide them

11:23 the best council, right? So what was really cool about going to work at Squar, right, is really kind of seeing like how these deals come together, right? From an idea, you know, that a

11:36 geologist or a geophysicist creates, you know, to, you know,

11:42 putting leases together, right? and actually sending guys out into the field to go. acquired grassroots leases to all of the deal work that goes into putting the capital together to actually be

11:56 able to go out to drill wells. And then the engineers coming in and designing a drilling program and a completion program and then turning the well over to production. And it's pretty cool. And one

12:08 of the things that I love about our industry is that, I don't want to describe it. It's like success in oil and gas comes at the intersection of multiple disciplines.

12:23 And I think that that's really cool because it really is a team sport. You've got your GEOs that create these crazy ideas based on seismic or based on well control or whatever it is.

12:38 All the way to the land guys that are putting the leases together and the engineers that are actually, you know, drawing these little holes in the ground that extend. miles up on end to the

12:50 accountants and the finance guys that figure out how you get paid for all this stuff. It's really pretty awesome when you think about it. Yeah, it's like you've got an intersection of various

13:01 different disciplines within the oil and gas company itself. And then also a little bit where I play

13:09 on the technology side. What are the technologies, A, to optimize finding the asset, finding the rock, secure in the lease, looking at a map and knowing exactly where this is to the drill bit

13:22 that goes down whole, the geo steer. And that whole process all the way through to optimizing your lease operators, which well, should they go to first versus just driving in a square or a

13:36 triangle every day because you're trying to mitigate loss of production, increase revenue and also, of course, avoid any sort of HSC related issues. Yes - So I could imagine that for you coming

13:50 from the legal side of things, there's a lot for you to balance and think about, which has sort of led to why you've taken over as like fundamentally a CFO for the company that you see - CFO - CFO -

14:03 Oh, oh, oh, oh, sorry.

14:08 COO for the company that you work for today, which is actually a Bakken operator. You wanna tell us a little bit about Prichal Rich - Yeah, yeah, sure So yeah,

14:18 so Prichal Rich is

14:20 an operating company. We operate assets up in

14:24 the Williston Basin, mostly conventional production actually, which is where the majority of my experience on the operation side has been in the conventional space. And we had an opportunity myself,

14:38 my partner here is a guy by the name of Tristan Farrell who was a partner with an investor that was really, they were. in trouble, right, in 2020, right? You know, a lot of bad things happened

14:53 in 2020. It wasn't a gas - Yeah - And you know, we were able to come in and they gave us a chance, right? We put a business plan together and put it in front of them.

15:06 And what we've done over the past couple of years is we've assembled a team and we've helped them to manage and clean up this asset that they owned with the goal of eventually, you know, monetizing

15:19 it and helping them to create incremental value. And it's been an awesome experience, it really has. Yeah, I mean, we operated about 60 wells, right? So we've got a staff here in Denver. We've

15:34 got staff up in North Dakota and man, North Dakota can be tough. Those winters are, those winters are hard. Yeah, coming from the south, you know, coming from Louisiana, you know, and coming

15:49 from the Gulf Coast. I mean, it's a whole, like, when it was zero degrees here, you know, right around Christmas, when that was called, you know, kind of blew through the whole country, it

15:58 was negative 40 in little stuff. And, you know, just nothing works. You know, there are very few things work at negative 40. You know, you know, thankfully our team, our team did a really

16:10 good job of getting through it. But yeah, we're, we're,

16:16 we're on the market and we're hopeful that we will sell the asset here in the next, you know, three to six months - Well, that's exciting. We'll have to have you come back on if and when that

16:28 transaction ever does happen. But I'm curious now, 'cause you mentioned something that's fascinating to me fundamentally. I haven't spent that much time out in the field. I do, I mean, except

16:38 for the Permian, because like you've got to close very sit that offices

16:42 wells. And I guess California too, where you can't really avoid it if you go to big. field and even LA County to an extent. But like the true remote field operations. What happens when it gets to

16:55 40 below? Like how do you function? How does it function? Like I know some of this stuff can work on its own, I guess, once you're in production. But things still go wrong, things shut down.

17:08 Like how do you get out to the asset? How do things happen when it's 40 below? Well, you got to have a really good field team. I'll tell you that, right? And guys that are willing to go and run

17:20 these routes when it's 40 below. And for us, you know, when blizzards are rolling through, I mean, it's very much, you know, a safety focus, right? First and foremost, you know, our guys

17:32 need to take care of themselves, right? And they need to make sure that they're not putting themselves at risk. But I mean, yeah, I mean, you'd be surprised. I

17:41 mean, the main thing that you want to do is keep all right? Because the walls will stay pumping, right? Then all sorts of bad things happen when the wells get shut in for one reason or another

17:53 when it gets that cold. But yeah, I mean, it's a different ball game when you're talking about cold weather operations.

18:05 And it's not just North Dakota, right? I mean, you look at like Alberta as well. I'm sure they're interested dealing with this and they're even colder than that for more of the year. So there's

18:15 probably a playbook out there, but it's just crazy to me that, you know, like I get how things can happen in the Permian base and when it gets too hot, when it gets to be 130 degrees, like sure,

18:28 there could be some challenges. But when it gets that cold and it's a health risk to even expose your skin, right, it requires a different type of individual to be willing to go out and do it. And

18:40 then be be outside and solving problems at the wellhead. which are inevitably gonna happen because of that cold weather - No, that's exactly right. Yeah, it all just comes down to the team that

18:52 you have in the field and those guys are just built different. There's no question about it - Guys like you and me can sit in the back office the comfort of all the -

19:04 Yeah, I think it was a trend - I think it was a trend to be up there about once every six weeks - Okay - Just to, you know,

19:12 'cause that's one of

19:21 the things that we don't want is edicts coming from Denver. Like any lease operator that is working in the Williston Basin, that is the last thing that they want to come down. So it's all about,

19:29 it's just managing your guys and just making sure that they have the tools that they need to be successful. And just listening to them and hearing, because what they do is very difficult. And it's

19:41 very easy to take for granted but I'm sitting then, you know. but I'm sitting in an office, you know, here in Denver, Colorado. So - Totally. Yeah, that's always been a fascinating part of oil

19:52 and gas to me, right? You've got people sitting in these beautiful buildings, right? With mountain views or sitting on the 52nd floor, telling people what to do that are out in the field in

20:04 negative temperatures. So it could create a very detrimental dichotomy. But obviously showing your face out there and providing them with all the tools that they can survive seems to be a big deal.

20:17 I wanna talk a little bit about, you mentioned old, you know, like vertical wells, right? Traditional production. When a company like Prichyl Ridge sells their asset, are you just selling the

20:29 existing production or are you also selling the asset in the company with the idea that someone will come in and drill horizontal wells in the same acreage? Or like, how does that work? It depends.

20:42 It depends on what you

20:45 have and what exactly it is that you're selling. The

20:51 answer is that, yes, if you own rights

20:57 to the shale zones,

20:60 the Bakken, then certainly, you can sell that. There's a thousand different ways to skin that.

21:07 There are large companies, historically, what happened is, as all of the organic leases and existing production all got gobbled up by the big guys that control the shale plays, what you'll

21:22 oftentimes see is a divestiture of all of the older stuff, kind of

21:30 preshale, whether it's kind of gin one, horizontal,

21:37 or older vertical type production. different companies that look, you know, they're the shale guys and there are guys that look to drill, you know, unconventional wells, produce, operate

21:49 unconventional wells, and there's a whole 'nother realm of folks, right, that play in the vertical space. So, you know, folks that are buying assets just for, you know, kind of pure PDP

22:02 blowdown, what is a term that you would use to just buy, you know, buy a stream of cash flows from a producing asset, you know, and guys that are buying stuff and looking at it and saying, hey,

22:14 you know, you know, this field was being developed and then shale happened and everybody forgot about it. So, we see opportunity to come in here and drill additional vertical wells.

22:27 So, another question, because this is just really interesting stuff to me.

22:32 Is the most likely acquirer of an asset or a company like a Prichl Ridge, somebody that has can take contiguous acreage or does it really just vary? Like, because to me, it would make sense if I

22:45 already have a field office and I already have guys and a team and feel familiarity with how to operate in cold weather conditions or mountainous conditions that we'd be more interested in buying what

22:57 you have than somebody who's say, you know, operating in the pain'sville shill. Oh, 100 100. Yeah I mean, it's all about, you know, economies of scale, you know, which is kind of what you

23:12 were just describing, right? And,

23:15 yeah, I mean, have the, you know, the folks that are interested in, you know, buying a particular asset are the folks that already own assets in that area. I think is kind of what you're

23:27 getting at. But yeah, I mean, don't get me wrong. I mean, there are folks that look for opportunities, you know, across the lower 48, you know, that are going to be opportunistic and they're

23:37 of course, if they think that they can buy it and they believe in the deal, then they'll enter into new basin. But

23:45 certainly,

23:48 the folks that are interested in buying a deal are probably folks that have staff, they have wells in the area, it's just a matter of adding wells to existing pumping routes. That's a very natural

24:01 fit. Logical. So I want to talk about minerals guy So a little bit of history on this, right? You and I were talking over the summer about various things. But one of them was you've kind of seen

24:16 what I've done with funk futures and podcasting, content creation, brand building and said, I have this idea, right? And I really think that there's an opportunity for me here with my experience,

24:31 with my expertise and full understanding of minerals, which I don't even fully understand to be. completely transparent about it. And - One way to describe it in my content, Barry -

24:44 And that you had an idea. So tell us, where did minerals guy come from? And then of course, what is minerals guy - Yeah, yeah. So the impetus for minerals guy, right? So a couple of things,

24:58 right?

25:01 The way that people consume media has changed and it has changed forever, right? So,

25:09 you know, social media, good, bad, ugly, whether you like it, whether you hate it,

25:19 it is absolutely here to stay, right? And these little things that we carry around in our pockets are how people get their news, it's how they communicate with friends and family. This is, you

25:28 know, this is our entire lives or on these devices, right? And so that's the first piece, right? You use social media.

25:40 It

25:43 doesn't matter what industry you talk about, whether you're talking about tech, whether you're talking about real estate, whether you're talking about the medical field. There are so

25:57 many outlets where people have said, what, I can use this device, I can use social media to reach and provide my expertise to people and use the platform to be able to do it. And

26:11 it's the whole concept of the

26:14 creator economy, or the influencer economy, whatever you want to call it.

26:21 And you can love it or hate it, but it is very real.

26:28 And so that is one piece of it So it's just the recognition that -

26:36 You know, social media is here and it's here to stay. It's things like podcasts, it's YouTube, it's crazy enough, it's things like TikTok - TikTok, I knew you were gonna say that - Yeah, we can

26:47 talk about TikTok here in a minute. But yeah, I mean, so really what I started looking at, and then the other concept is, and I think that this is something that you'll resonate with, hopefully

26:57 some of your listeners, and I heard a guy say,

27:01 your biggest problem is not that you are not an expert You're a given field, right? So your biggest problem is not that you're not an expert and you're given field. You are an expert, right? Your

27:12 biggest problem is obscurity, and then no one knows who you are - Totally - Right, so just marinate on that for a second, right? So I looked at it and I looked at, you know, 'cause I consume,

27:26 you know, on YouTube and Instagram and all these different things, and I've got people that I follow, you know, for investment advice or for real estate or whatever it is. And I looked at oil and

27:35 gas, right? And I looked at minerals in particular where I have a lot of knowledge and expertise. And I said, no one is doing this. There's nothing out there. There's nothing out there. If I'm

27:48 a mineral owner and I wanna know, about activity in my area, if I wanna understand, who should I be dealing with? What are red flags when people are calling me asking to buy? How do I deal with

28:01 land then? How are minerals valued - Yeah - What makes a mineral, what makes one mineral lake are valuable, right? And there's absolutely nothing out there. And so I just, I saw that and I

28:15 really kind of felt like, if I didn't do it, someone else would. And then I would kick myself, three or five years down the road, for not taking a chance. So that's really the, that's the story

28:31 behind it So what I did is I called this guy that I know. named Jeremy Funk who started the podcast. And I said, how do I do this - And I said, Dr. Nicole - Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and it was really

28:46 cool because when

28:49 I started thinking about ideas for content, I think I filled up a whole, multiple pages of notes inside like 30 minutes. And I was like,

29:02 I have valuable content that I can give, two mineral owners and why not do it -

29:13 And like to go back to that period of time, I think you and I had a bunch of conversations. And it reminded me a little bit of when I was getting started with the podcast from my first thought was,

29:25 okay, is this gonna create value for anybody? And then two is, who's gonna listen to this? What if this is a failure? And you asked me those same questions too. And the truth is like, well, if

29:36 you do nothing, like it's, of course it's gonna be a failure. If you do something and one or two or 10 or 20 people, listen to you speak, right? Watch your videos and get value from it. Then

29:50 how could you deem that a failure? Right? It's taking that first step and it's been really cool to see you take this first step and knowing that you have lots of other educational content which is

30:00 probably gonna morph a little bit more into more of a business, I would guess at some point, but lots of really cool educational content that's gonna put you out there as a subject matter expert in

30:11 the mineral space and then have people start coming to you to talk about minerals. You also made a comparison that really stuck with me early on 'cause I was struggling to think about, okay, what

30:23 is he talking about with this whole minerals thing? And you said, if you wanna know what your house is worth, where do you go? We go, well, I'll just go to Zillip. or go to Redfin or whatever

30:33 it is. You're like, you can't do that with minerals. So somebody owns these minerals and a lot of cases maybe they're inherited. They really have no idea what the minerals are worth. And that's

30:43 hard - They have no idea. They have no idea. I mean, there's a bunch of, you know, it's just, yeah, that was a, believe me, I love that line. There was no zestment for your minerals. I told

30:56 that to my wife the first time and I just smiled. She was like, you just think you're so clever But it's so true, right? I mean, it's, and not that it's so overly complicated that an average

31:09 layman, you know, can't get their head wrapped around it. But yes, I mean, there's no one-stop shop. There's no website that you can go to, you know, that's gonna give you inside of 30 seconds

31:20 the value of your mineral rights, right? So, you know, a lot of folks are relying on, you know, basically just a multiple of cash flow type of analysis when they're selling, right? And so,

31:34 you know, that can be good or that can be bad, right? If you're talking about, you know, conventional production or, you know, wells that, you know, a property that has been fully drilled,

31:46 right? And you're kind of down the, down the, the, the slope of the client curve, then a multiple of cash flow analysis makes sense. But, you know, if you had one well drilled on your property,

31:59 you know, in 2010, you know, for example, in the sort of parish, right? And you sell for a multiple of cash flow at 60 months, then you are getting your face ripped off. There's just

32:12 absolutely, I mean, so it's, there's a lot of different factors that, that you really need to look at, right? Or that mineral owners should look at to make sure that they are getting fair about,

32:23 right? And so that's, that's the kind of stuff that I'm going to bring, you know, and, and, and, and frankly, what I'm going to do is I'm going to pull back the curtain. And I'm going to be

32:32 like, you know, here is how I look at deals, right? Here's how I would assign value, right? And these are the things that you need to be thinking about, right? It's not just the wells that are

32:44 in production that you're getting cash flow for, right? It's you can have a comment on your property, you know, or maybe you live out of state, right? You live in California, right? But you

32:54 inherited minerals in Louisiana You know, if a mineral buyer calls you and you sell for, you know, 60 months of cash flow, but there's, you know, four ducks sitting on your property that are

33:05 about to get fracked, then you were giving away the farm. So it's the idea that, you know, the way that I believe that, you know, transactions should be conducted is, you know, folks should

33:18 know, you know, that they should go into an eyes-wide open, right, with all of the factors on the table, right? And there's a lot of folks out there that are never sellers,

33:30 they don't want to hear it. They'll never sell and that's all fine and good. But for all the people that are on the fence that look at it and they say, you know what, like I own minerals, this is

33:39 great, this is an asset, I'm a personal balance sheet. But you know what, I really care about doing something over here, right? How do those people make sure that they're getting fair value,

33:50 right? And so that's what I hope minerals guy will provide. And what I hope is that these folks will call me, you know?

33:59 So we'll see where it goes. I mean, it's gonna be, you know, when you told me this, you were like, you know, if you do it, you have to commit There's.

34:11 no, you know, create three videos and then hang it up 'cause it didn't work. You know, you got your feelings here 'cause you only got 10 views or whatever.

34:21 I mean, it's very like, I'm in it, you know, my goal is the 35 long form videos on YouTube.

34:29 this year, which I believe will help me get into the YouTube algorithm. It's really about building momentum and hopefully it will start to fly wheel through time.

34:42 Basically, I've got all these touch points across the internet, people on YouTube and Facebook and LinkedIn and Instagram and TikTok and my website and blog. It's all these things that these search

34:56 engines look at That's how they decide how to rank,

35:02 how far to the top you get. My goal for Minerals Guy is that inside of the next 12 months, when you search minerals, sell minerals, how are minerals valued, my content is right there for people.

35:19 Well, I think you're well on your way and being consistent is a big part of that I think I read somewhere when I first started my podcast that like like 85 or 90 of podcasts are eight to 10 episodes.

35:36 So, and I can really see how that would happen. Like I'm not making any money off of this. In fact, I'm investing time, which in my case is money. Is this really worth it? You start to question

35:47 it. You know, I could be doing other things, but it really is about being consistent. And I can already see with the amount of content that you've put out that you are consistent, which is really,

35:57 really cool and something I appreciate.

36:01 And I know that you'll be successful with this because you're passionate about it. And that's the most important thing. You've also, Steven, on another topic, been incredibly inspirational. For

36:12 me, some people know this. Certainly not everybody listening to this podcast is aware of this, but in late August, I decided to check myself into rehab. I felt like some of my issues were getting

36:25 out of control, especially with alcohol. and have decided to commit to a life of sobriety. Now, I've been hesitant to talk about this, especially on this platform, but it is a big part of who I

36:37 am and what I'm working through on a daily basis. And in that process of finding myself a path to sobriety, you've been quite an inspiration for me, Stephen, and just really wanted to share that.

36:48 I appreciate that about you - Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so it's a great way of life. You know,

36:56 certainly it's something that, you know, everybody deals with, right? In some form or another, whether it's a family member or a friend. I mean, there's just, you know, for better or for

37:12 worse, right? I mean, it touches on, you know, our lives and, and yeah, I mean, I would say that, well, let me start by saying this, yeah, I mean, I've been sober for over 15 years Wow,

37:27 it's crazy. which is crazy because when I got sober, I did not plan on staying sober this

37:35 long. And it's crazy, I got sober when I was 21,

37:41 and I was shown this way of life. And

37:46 I've built an incredible life, right? And now I'm married and I've got kids and I've got all of these really cool things that are happening in business And it's just, my life is incredibly full,

38:01 right? And a lot of people look at me like I got three heads whenever

38:06 I tell them I'm sober. Most people don't even realize it, to be honest with you. 'Cause they don't know. You know, you get this too. Like if you're out, you know, I get a close soda and a lime

38:16 and no one's the wiser. But every once in a while, you know, if somebody figures it out, I mean, I don't know, man, it's a huge part of my identity it's a big. part of who I am as a man, as a

38:31 husband, as a father. And yeah, when you called me, you know,

38:38 you know, what did I say? Welcome to the club -

38:42 We've been waiting for your entry -

38:47 But I think it's awesome, man. I'm incredibly proud of both what you're doing. And obviously like,

38:56 you know, being open to speaking freely about it, you know, on a podcast is pretty crazy. And you know, really the only reason that I do this, you know, is, you know, if we can reach one

39:09 person out there, you know what I'm saying, that,

39:13 you know, is struggling themselves or, you know, they know someone pulls them, they struggle, you know, just to provide hope, right?

39:23 That there's life on the other side of that. I think that was the hard thing for you. You were just like, I can't imagine my life with it. I can't imagine my life without it. And if you ever get

39:35 to that place, you're totally screwed -

39:40 And that's where

39:42 I was, candidly, and I didn't know what to do. But in our conversations, even when we weren't talking about sobriety whatsoever, what I noticed was, the Funk Future does some marketing and shout

39:55 out to Nicole Nixon, she's been doing a lot of the content, creation, editing, and so on and so forth. For Minerals Guy, she's absolutely fantastic. Probably the best that there is, and really

40:06 fortunate. You're fortunate to be able to work with her - Yes, I'm fortunate. Thank you - Right? And I'm fortunate that I

40:13 can refer projects over to her. But when somebody comes to us and says, yeah, we wanna engage you guys for some marketing help We come back with sort of a series of questions. and then we set up

40:26 an introductory call. And nobody actually answers those questions for the record, but you did. You answered them in really great detail. And the gears started to churn for me. You were so

40:38 prepared for that meeting and I was thinking, this is different. How does this guy have it? And it's like, we talked about it afterwards. I was like, how the hell are you so prepared? You said,

40:47 well, sobriety is a cheat code. And in the last five months, I've kind of learned that about myself too That I think a lot of what I was trying to do. And losing Tim, of course, was really,

40:58 really hard for me. And I'm not gonna make any excuses, but it started to help me down a path that was not necessarily the most positive. And what I wanted to do was just check out. I didn't want

41:11 to face life because I wasn't happy with how a lot of things were going. And I didn't want to deal with some of the more recent pain and even some of the longer term pain that I had experienced in my

41:22 life and in sobriety. you feel a lot of those things more, right - You feel all of it - You feel all of it. And that's been heavy and difficult for me, but really the only way is through because

41:38 the other paths are effectively, they were just delaying my inevitable pain, right? And maybe even making some of that pain worse, but it really kind of hit me when I was, I don't know, it was

41:50 probably about four months after Tim had passed Just how much that really hurt. Like I knew that it had hurt at the time and being at his funeral and all that stuff was terrible, but I was more

42:04 comfortable numbing myself out and not feeling it. And I don't think I'm the only person that deals with their struggles or has dealt with struggles by doing that. But then finally, when I had a

42:13 little bit of clarity, I was like, Oh man, this still hurts. And maybe it's always gonna hurt. And. That's part of life, man. That's part of growth and it's not always gonna be comfortable.

42:27 But I've seen growth in myself as a man, as a businessman, and more importantly, as a father. I don't know if you saw in LinkedIn today, I threw a post out there, my son turned five today,

42:40 which is like a really great deal. It's a big deal. You've got young sons. And for me,

42:48 it's a chance to reflect on the past few years and how excited I am, hopefully, to continue setting a good example for him. And just show that even though it's the societal norm, to lean in very

43:04 heavily to alcohol and have it be a social thing, it doesn't have to be like that for everyone. And maybe it is for some people and they can live just fine. But for me, it was just a means to

43:15 escape and particularly escape some of my problems. The problems are still there. They don't go away. You just face them head on - Yeah, no, that's right. I mean, it's definitely the path, the

43:27 path less traveled, right? And, you know, but,

43:34 you know, I can't imagine my life any other way, to be honest with you, you know, 'cause I built a life, you know, you know, that is really incompatible with that wall - Right - Right?

43:47 Everybody that knows me, you know, those that I'm sober, you know, my sons have never seen me drink - Yeah - My wife has never seen me drink. And, you know, for, I mean, don't get me wrong,

44:02 like, when I didn't just get sober, 'cause, you know, 'cause life was going great. You know what I'm saying? Like, what are they saying? Like,

44:13 nobody gets sober on a winning streak, right? You know, I made it to a pretty dark. place.

44:27 And I know in some ways, just because of family history and

44:32 what we know about alcoholism and drug addiction and things like that, that there are a lot of yets for me. And I choose this life of sobriety, because it's really the only way that I know how to

44:50 live. I got sober when I was a kid. I learned how to live in sobriety. And so I know that I've got lots of lose today. And there are just so many things. The way that I think about it is,

45:08 my God, my heart power didn't put me on this planet to go through life having to use alcohol and drugs to cope. Right? That's not what that was. I don't believe in my heart of hearts that that was

45:22 intended as part of the human experience, that people would have to do that in order to get through life. And for anybody listening, if you're at a point where

45:38 that's where you're at, and you relate to that, just know that, there is another path. And

45:47 it's a beautiful life It really, it really is -

45:52 Yeah, well, I'm getting excited just here in Utah, kind of like I did when I first went down this path, but just wanted to thank you, Steven, for being an inspiration for me, for kind of

46:04 showing what it could be like to live this way. And I'm heading to Nate, I think this

46:12 podcast should come out - It's Spring Break, LintmanSpringBreak, you want to - Great, great. There goes my streak - No, no, no. But I mean, I've been. been thinking about it. And if you

46:21 asked me four months ago, I would have said I shouldn't go to this event. And I've just started to build in habits and patterns and behaviors in my life that I'm really not anxious or concerned at

46:34 all. In fact, I'll probably have my most productive nape and still stay out as late as I did at previous events. So I'm almost excited to embrace this experience besides it being like you said,

46:47 landman spring break and being a big, a big booze fast, which had been for me in the past, certainly not alone. And all that. But Stephen final thoughts really appreciate you coming on,

47:01 especially getting deep with us here over the past dozen minutes or so. But where can people find minerals guy minerals guy content? Yeah, you all that stuff. Yeah, so I that's the first thing

47:12 that I did when I came up with this idea as I went and got all the handles. So yeah, obviously, minerals guy calm. you know, check us out. You know, the primary long form content is on

47:28 YouTube. It's youtubecomminoralsgac. So you can find us on there, if you search us there. And then we didn't need to get a chance to talk about TikTok, but TikTok is nuts, dude. It's absolutely

47:40 bananas - Just as far as how many views and touches - Well, it's just like Russian roulette. I can't even really, I don't even really like using it because you just don't know what you're gonna get,

47:50 you know, in terms of like the next video that's gonna pop up, but yeah, it's crazy. I mean, the number of views, you know, I've actually, I've got more people that have followed on TikTok

48:03 than all the other platforms combined, but anyhow, yeah, you can find this across TikTok,

48:11 Instagram, Facebook, really all the above. So yeah, I mean, to anybody that's out there listening, Yeah, please, please go. watch the content. Give us a like, you know, if you subscribe on

48:24 our YouTube channel, that is like so incredibly helpful to us just because it helps us to get, you know, the content in front of more folks. It's just a, it's a blend of likes and subscribes.

48:34 And that's just how all these algorithms work. So yeah, that's where you can find us. Well, it's, it's interesting stuff. It's fascinating. And I look forward to finding the estimate, minerals

48:48 estimate on the minerals. You know, I'll

48:53 get to come up with a, a restaurant, a rest of

48:58 it. I like it. But yeah, anybody, and here's the deal to anybody reach out to me direct, you know, stevenminneralsguycom, you

49:08 know, you know, on anything, anything having to do with minerals, anything having to do with sobriety, like whatever. Like, I'd love to hear from, from any of you. And yeah, this is an

49:20 awesome out, buddy. I appreciate you having me on - My man, Hatcher has hatched. Minerals guy.